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Daddy-D
*GenIII*
 
11/09/2002
23:21:32
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 Subject: Synthetic ATF?
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Life with my '98 3.9 auto has been good - time to do a tranny service (flush, adj, etc).
I want to move up to synthetic ATF; one shop suggested I just use Mopar ATF with Lubegard additive. I already have synthetic engine oil.
Opinions?
'98 DakSport C/C 3.9 2WD A/T
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2002
00:02:47
|  RE: Synthetic ATF?
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Do your trany and yourself a favor. Get Redline C+ ATF or Amsoil ATF. Both are 100% synthetic and both are excellent products.I have used them both and can honestly say that I like them both. You will not need to add Lube Guard to them. They will run cooler and shifter better then OEM fluid. The best part that both products are cheaper then OEM fluid!!
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Art
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2002
02:22:54
| RE: Synthetic ATF?
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I just changed my Tranny fluid to Amsoil for the reasons sandman mentioned and because I live in Florida where heat is a major problem. Sythetic oil is the only way to go here, IMO. I use Mobile 1 in my engine and differential because I trust it (used it for years) and I can get it readily when on trips should the need arise. Funny thing is, Amsoil is pure synthetic. According to the Dodge mechanic I talked to, the Mopar stuff is straight Dino oil until you add the additive yet they would have charged me more per quart than I paid for Amsoil ($7.12). I found a local auto dealer (not Dodge) that sells Amsoil. I bought the Amsoil ATF from them then had the Dodge dealer do the flush since they had the flush machine and both filters needed. My Dakota is a 2001 4.7 with the 45RFE 5 speed Tranny. It takes 14 quarts so I gave them 16. They used about 14 3/4 quarts for the flush.
Also agree with a point sandman makes regarding not using lighter than 10W30 oil in an engine. Long story but I was a military pilot for 22 years and let's just say you will never find lighter than 10W30 in any engine of mine. Nuff said.
Cheers
Art
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dabart65
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2002
13:09:11
| RE: Synthetic ATF?
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Art, I'm not try to dis you, but I don't think you said nuff yet. Would love to know why you say 10W30 is lightest you will go. Thanks man!
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Stoney
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2002
14:35:50
|  RE: Synthetic ATF?
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Can someone enlighten me about the complete flush deal? If I wanted to change over to AMSOIL ATF, will the flush remove the all the OEM ATF and completely replace it with the AMSOIL? How does that work?
Stoney
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98FlameRdDak
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2002
20:29:41
|  RE: Synthetic ATF?
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Stoney
If you are serious about switching over to Amsoil ATF then do yourself a favor and change the filter as well.
I bought a filter/gasket kit for less than 10 bucks. If you are planning to change your own fluid then I would suggest you have a drain pan big enough to hold the fluid once you remove the transmission pan.
Personally, I didn't want the hassles of ATF all over my drive way so I paid an auto shop 80 bucks to do it for me. They dropped the tran pan, changed the filter and scrapped off the old gasket, install the new gasket and reinstalled the pan. Then they refilled the transmission with 3.5 quarts of ATF4 and then flushed the system with the Amsoil ATF that I gave them.
The whole procedure took less than an hour and they did a nice job. No leaks and the tranny shifts much smoother now.
Doing a transmission flush without changing the filter is a bad idea, in my opinion.
Mark
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2002
21:41:55
| RE: Synthetic ATF?
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Here is my take on Trany service. If you service trany soon enough you will not need to flush it. I put my truck up on ramps and used a $8 kiddy pool under the pan. The pool caught all of the trany fluid. I removed both filters and let it drain for about 30 minutes while I talked with Dad about international affairs. I measuered what came out by pumping the fluid into 1 empty 2L pop bottel and a 1 gallon milk jug. I got around 6 quarts out. If you do not want to mess around with flushing then just change your fluid at 10,000 miles and then change your fluid and filters at 30,000 miles. Between the two fluid changes you will have effectively replaced so much of the OEM Semi-Synthetic ATF+4 that for all practical purposes you will have completly synthetic fluid in your transmission! THis way you avoid any mess and you avoid being charged for a flush!
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Stoney
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2002
22:04:31
| RE: Synthetic ATF?
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If I understand all of this, the OEM fluid is never really drained completely, whether by flushing or just dropping the pan and letting it drain. (or is the converter drainable?)
Sooooo, after one or two tranny services, the OEM fluid is almost completely replaced by whatever type ATF is used.........right???
Either way I go, I will change filters each time.
Stoney
Dakota addiction
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98FlameRdDak
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2002
22:24:31
| RE: Synthetic ATF?
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Sandman
Since you removed the pan to drain the fluid, but not the converter, what would be the harm in starting the engine and letting the rest of the fluid in coverter come out through the pan?
I am thinking as long as you don't drive the truck, what is the harm? This way you get all the tranny fluid out and then you simply install a new filter, reinstall the pan and refill the transmission. Once you have enough fluid in the pan, you start the truck and you finish adding the rest of the fluid.
just thinking out loud...but wondering.
BTW, the 8 dollar kiddy pool is a good idea.
Mark
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Daddy-D
*GenIII*
11/11/2002
12:45:57
| RE: Synthetic ATF?
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A local tranny shop told me my torque converter has a drain plug - does it really?
I tell ya - every tranny shop I ask has a different story.
I wish DC would just get flexible!
'98 DakSport C/C 3.9 2WD A/T
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98FlameRdDak
Dodge Dakota
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11/11/2002
19:05:05
| RE: Synthetic ATF?
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Don't feel too bad Daddy-D..I was told the same thing......I just can't seem to find it.
Mark
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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11/11/2002
19:10:20
| RE: Synthetic ATF?
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Some T/C's do have drain plugs. I do not know if your's does or not. I would never run a trans with the pan off and no fluid in it. Even with the engine when some people would dry crank to remove all oil from the engine they never ran it with out oil. They would remove the coil wire so engine could not start and run with no oil. The dry crank oil change went the way of the dinosaur!! I think you guys are getting a bit too anal about flushing your trans. Their is a decent do it your self method listed on Amsoils corperate site on flushing your trans. Anytime you try to flush or make more involved something as idiot proof as changeing trany fluid you increase the chances of ruining your equipment. Does it realy matter if you get all 14.75...quarts out in one change or if it takes you two acclerated changes? Either way you are still getting 14+++ quarts out and spending the same amount on fluid! Notice that nowhere in the service manual or owners manual does it ever mention flushing the old fluid out or flushing the transmission. The idea behind the service interval is to change the fluid before you cook the hell out it in the first place. If you have done this then the new fluid will fortify the old fluid until the next change. When they decided on a service interval they knew that you would not be able to get all of the fluid out like you come close to doing on a crank case. With a professional flush you run a 50/50 chance that they will actualy use your exspensive Synthetic in your vechile instead of keeping it for their own vechile. If you do drain the T/C how do you plan on primeing it without removeing the Transmission from the vechile. IF you have professional flushed do you realy want to risk the flushing slovents possable damageing seals or creating a blockage in the transmission by breaking loose a big piece of varnish deep inside the trans???? THese are all things that must be considered. If you have a 2000 or newer and your truck came with ATF+4 already in it then how much do you think you are going to lose in performance due to 5-7 quarts of OEM semi-synthetic fluid still in the transmission. I understand that 100% synthetic is better then 5-7 quarts of OEM semi-synthetic and 7 quarts of 100% Synthetic Amsoil or Redline but how much better. If you guys are not going to be able to sleep at night because their is some non-synthetic in your transmission then go right ahead but I think you are going to alot of trouble for very little additional return!! Good Luck!!!
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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11/11/2002
22:50:37
|  RE: Synthetic ATF?
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Sorry for all the typo's. I had to type fast so I could go to the gym. I had alot more typo's then I normaly have which is already to many. Remember it is all about marginal returns / diminishing returns!!! How much gain for how much time and money invested. Todays OEM fluids are getting alot better. All of the new GM trucks have 100,000 mile service interval for noraml usage on the transmissions thanks to synthetic ATF. The rear diff no longer has a recommened drain interval on the 8.5/8.625 diff. It was 100,000 miles then they decided that that was not needed so the recomended drain interval is no more. They even started removeing the drain plug on these axles. This does not mean that I would ever let my fluids go this long. The point I am trying to make is that the newer vechiles 2001,2002, 2003 are shipping with some darn fine synthetic and semi-synthetic fluids from the factroy. While some aftermarket products are still better and cheaper then OEM fluids it is not quite as extreme as just a few years ago! So while it used to be of great advantage to flush a system and refill with 100% synthetic the hassel of doing this today is realy not warranted. You can get close to the same results with newer vechiles that shiped with either synthetic or semi-synthetic with out as much complicaton or hassel. Statisticly the average joe only keeps his truck 3-5 years before he trades it in. In the course of 3-5 years I doubt that takeing 2 fluid changes to completely change out your fluids realy represents a huge durability issue in light of alot of 60,000 to 100,000 mile fluid change come down the pipe on alot of automatic transmissions. The fact that you are chageing it at least at the recommened service interval puts you in the top 1% of vechile owners for maintence. Well now that I road this dead horse into the ground I better dimount!! Happy Trail's!!!!!!
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