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R_U_FST2
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2002
15:32:14
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 Subject: Horsepower race raging among automakers
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http://www.suntimes.com/output/auto/car-news-power27.html
Was there any doubt? Can't wait to trade the Dak in on a GTO ... lol, just kiddin.
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DaveR
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2002
15:38:31
| RE: Horsepower race raging among automakers
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I'm all about the second coming of a the muscle car era. I missed the first one so I can't wait. I thought the numbers were starting to climb...
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don94
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2002
15:58:37
| RE: Horsepower race raging among automakers
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i guess we dont learn much from what happened to us in 1973 when we couldnt get gas, cause of arab nations. they just love us to get gas guzzlers. i went thru the era of muscle cars and sure it was exciting but now we are in deep sh*t with what is going on in the middle east. get real this is a whole new world and gas mileage is very important to this nation i hate knuckeling under to demands from middle east cause we dont get it. sorry but thats just my humble opinion. we need to live in the present not the past.
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RTD2
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2002
16:43:00
|  RE: Horsepower race raging among automakers
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Well I dont mean to call the american people stupid, because by all means you aren't... BUT it is a startling misconception that if the arabs dont sell the oil or ask too much then the world.. or maybe just North America is screwed. Up here in Alberta our main way of life is oil and natural gas. We have the Oilsands, and LOTS and i do mean LOTS of underground oil. It was estimated ,not more than 5 years ago, that at the current growth rate of oil consumption, Alberta could supply North America for another 50 years.. more than enough time to find other sources of fuel. The only reason we don't produce as much is because OPEC can undersell us because all they need to do is drill through some sand... we have far more difficult terrain to work in to recover the oil, or in the case of the oilsands... it costs quite a bit to refine the oil. But mark my words... the oil prices start going up due to low supply and high demand... Alberta starts producing oil at a phenominal rate, and we make a ton of cash too.
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don94
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2002
17:24:45
| RE: Horsepower race raging among automakers
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RTD2: i am happy that ur coutry has that much oil in reserve. first and formost i love the province of ontario, and secondly this country is spoiled. they can get mad at me if they want but they need to take care of what resources they have and stop complaining when arabs control our foreign policy cause they have the oil that we need to run our high powered vehicles
that we can't seem to get it. Is it worth losing the thousands of soldiers that died to make this country free to let arab nations dictate to us how we should run our country, i ask u ?
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2002
22:09:17
| RE: Horsepower race raging among automakers
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The oil sortage thing is just a made up lie buy the anti-capitolists. There is no shortage of oil and even oil fields are replenishing themselves at an amazing rate. It just may be that the oil fields are not anywhere near as old as imagined, and they are constantly refilling from composting matter. It's not just the dinosaurs that made the oild but everything since then, and everything in the future. Russia being our friends now have huge oild fields as well that we can use. If OPEC cuts us off the law of supply and demand will icrease prices, but compared to the rest of the world we are spoiled by low prices to begin with. Even if gas was $3.00 a gallon it would just fall in line with inflation dating back to 1950. Also these new high horspower cars don't give up that much on feul ecomomy. We had a "feul efficient" Dodge Omni when they first came out in 1978 and it got the same gas mileage as my current AWD, 3.8 Grand Caravan. If they do increase feul standards the factories won't do it in the engines they will do it with reduced weight. That reduced weight has been proven to greatly increase the death rate in collisions. So we will be killing unessarily, more people then were killed Sept 11th, evey year on our highways. This just so we don't have to drill our own oil on some barren wasteland in Alaska nobody will ever visit. Same goes for drilling 100's of miles off the coast of Florida, more oil is released into the ocean every year from natural underground fissures, then the total spilled by man. Why is it OK to drill in the middle east and nowhere else, it's all one earth right? The problem is some people don't want us to have the freedom to easilly travel, choose the car we feel suits our uses best, and continously advance our way of life. If we need more efficint cars the marketplace will demand it and the manufactures will produce it on their own. Forcing regulations down our throats, especially on the national level does more to hurt our nation those proud soilders died protecting. It's not about oil it is a way of life, the free, capitolist, Americian way. I don't think Thomas Jefferson, and Ben Franklin ever dreamed it would be the federal governments responsibility to control how peopled travelled from work to home, or on vacation. I think they'd have great hesitation in mandating horses be bred small so they don't eat as much hay and produce as much emissions.
About the new musclecar era, I think it's wonderful. A truley great time to be alive.
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R_U_FST2
Dodge Dakota
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5/27/2002
22:18:22
| RE: Horsepower race raging among automakers
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For instance, our 405-horsepower Chevrolet Corvette Z06 gets an EPA-estimated 28 mpg on the highway despite fantastic performance from a 350-cubic-inch V-8 that's small by 1960s muscle car standards."
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28MPG is hardly contributing to the dependance on foreign oil. I would expect technology to keep these numbers either moving higher or staying the same with HP moving up.
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2002
00:59:53
| RE: Horsepower race raging among automakers
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Man, I just had the feeling I would see one of Hersbird's post as I scrolled down. Great to have your input on these forums!
I want to switch to Hydrogen!
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Topless 68
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2002
08:59:26
| RE: Horsepower race raging among automakers
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The way to get the better gas mileage is to create better technology in engines. For instance, the Dodge V-8. The 5.2L pushrod only produces 230HP while the 4.7L OHC engine produces more HP and more torque. The OHC design is much more efficient then the 'old school' pushrod design. Look at these 4-bangers that produce near 200HP using computerized variable valve timing and DOHCs. What if manufacturers started using Turbos and superchargers, that would greatly increase HP without lowering MPG all that much. Look at these Gasoline/Electric Hybrids. Nobody wants to buy one of these because they lack power and they just plain look ugly. People are accustomed to going to the Shell station, squeezing the handle and buying a tank full of go juice....The entire way of life would have to change for people to accept these engineering marvels...
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Dr0p0ff
GenIII
5/28/2002
09:06:58
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"Is it worth losing the thousands of soldiers that died to make this country free to let arab nations dictate to us how we should run our country, i ask u ?"
NO. that would dishonor them in a BIG way. I'm not much on polotics or what's goin on in washington. I probably should pay more attention because it directly affects my life. I do know this. since the day i joined the Marines.. I've been begging and hoping for something to happen so i could have a chance to use what i've been taught. die for my country? that's a choice me and my brothers (and sisters) in the military make so hopefully no one else has to. i'd rather we throw a bunch of money at the arab world in the form of explosives personally.
then we could test out the 'getting oil elsewhere for a little higher prices' theory. ;o)
Keep On Truckin!
Sgt G
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CThomp
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2002
09:58:01
| RE: Horsepower race raging among automakers
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I look forward to when we don't use oil anymore. Natural gas...sure it burns cleaner. But oil? Someday I'd like to think that when I have kids they won't have asthma because the air is so bad. I live in Ft. Myers and our air quality scored a "D" here lately. Don't get me wrong I love my Dakota. Would it really end our world if we couldn't drive gas cars anymore? Gimme a break. One day oil will cost to much and people will get tired of having to fill up their gas tanks so much. It cost me $27.00 to fill my tank up the other day. So I invest in trying to make my truck get better mpg's. Someday I'll have a fuel cell powering my truck (probably in 10-15yrs or less). Some steam will come out of my tail pipe and thats pretty much it. Something tells me i'll get over it and when I have children they'll probably get over it too.
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Demon-Xanth
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2002
10:48:32
| RE: Horsepower race raging among automakers
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Interesting thing about this horsepower war, the cars are actually getting reasonable gas milage. Those 320HP Firebirds were getting 17-27 MPG. I had a 1980 Plymouth Champ that hovered in that range (the best gas milage was 25, average 22). And it was a 77HP 1.6L hatchback. Oddly enough when I went to a 1991 Grand Prix w/ 3.1L V6 (145HP) I averaged 1MPG more (23).
...then I got the Dak, 17MPG but oh, so worth it. I like torque. I just wish the Dakota rode more like a truck.
My dad managed to snag a massive 8MPG increase when he got a new truck, the '78 GMC 3/4 ton (full time 4x4, 400SB, TH-350) got 8-10 MPG, 3-4 when towing a 9000Lb travel trailer. Got a '99 Cummins+6 Speed and is now pulling dow 16-18MPG (15 when towing).
Today's muscle isn't coming at as high of a price as it once was. It's more drivable, more efficient, and more diverse.
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CThomp
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2002
10:56:11
| RE: Horsepower race raging among automakers
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Outside of my earlier post I do think today's muscle cars are very cool. And more efficent at that. Many are starting to use 6spd transmissions and lighter body panels like plastic and fiberglass but with much tougher frames. Firebirds and corvettes are good examples. 6spds, fiberglass panels, 300+ h.p., and better than 25mpg in some instances. Plastic panels cut wieght and manufacturing cost significantly. Now if they'd only put a 6spd in my dakota.
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MikeD
R/T
5/28/2002
12:10:28
| RE: Horsepower race raging among automakers
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The R/T could get great gas milage out of the big 360 if it had a 6 speed tranny. Thats the reason the Vette gets as good of gas mileage as it does, its also light too.
~Mike~
'01 R/T
MP 2400 Stall, True Duals w/ Flowmaster 40 series, M-1 2bbl, F&B 52mm TB, Airaid, JBA headers, JBA 9mm wires, Kenne Bell Optimizer II, 180 t-stat, 3rd cat removed, Chrome R/T badges
Awating Install: 2.02 Ported Magnum R/T Heads, Kammer Cam, 1.6 RR's
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Topless 68
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2002
13:41:24
| RE: Horsepower race raging among automakers
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the entire corvette body is made of fiberglass...thats why they are quicker than a camaro or firebird with the same ls1 engine.
aerodynamics have a huge effect on speed and gas mileage.
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2002
14:03:48
| RE: Horsepower race raging among automakers
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While on this topic, is it just me or is chrome appearing less and less on newer vehicles too. Is this because of the hazards in the chroming process and/or the cheap availability of plastics?
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cadetdak
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2002
14:07:27
| RE: Horsepower race raging among automakers
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just a little something to think is this:
the US only gets 10% of her oil from the middle east these days. The reason we defend it so much is because our allies rely heavily on it however there are alternatives. It is estimated that roughly 35-40% of the world's oil lies under siberia in russia. With the increasing good realations with the russins and the fact that only a few country including the US but not Russia possess the technology to be able to drill in such harsh conditions we stand a very easy chance of having full access to that oil.
besides we get most of our oil form offshore or right here in the good old USA so if the middle east stops sending us oil we'll go somewhere esle and they know that too.
just my two cents.
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Demon-Xanth
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2002
14:20:02
| RE: Horsepower race raging among automakers
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xplikt: the monochrome look is more popular, however Chrystler has it right (IMO), if you look at the back end of a PT Cruiser you see a grey bumper, and a chrome emblem/handle. It just looks right. Not slathered in chrome, but just accents.
Note the later first generation corvettes having thier chrome removed.
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Chris W
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2002
19:50:04
| RE: Horsepower race raging among automakers
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Hersbird, how about some paragraphs please! youre killing us man! I could hardly finish reading youre post due to eye strain!
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2002
23:36:31
| RE: Horsepower race raging among automakers
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Sorry I study more Political Science, haven't had grammer and spelling classes since 7th grade and I wasn't to great at it then!
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