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jpkomm
Dodge Dakota
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5/24/2006
10:18:06

Subject: Ethanol article
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Hello everyone,

I came across this short article on Foxnews.com that details E85 vs E10 Ethanol mixtures and its effect on vehicles. It didn't say Chrysler anywhere, but it is still good info. Should also answer quite a few questions on whether E85 is safe for our trucks. The short answer is no. Atleast.. I wouldn't risk it. Here is the article:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,196627,00.html



Obio3
Dodge Dakota
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5/24/2006
16:04:50

RE: Ethanol article
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Myself, I can't see our government , as unrealistic as thay can be at times, would Eliminate gas as it is today or atleast the regular pumps/gas . My reasons go way beyond our Dakotas. The backbone of this country is the farmers/ranchers And it's simple fact that most of them are running on obsolete equipment they cannot afford to replace. As it's stated, these older engines, including most newer ones well not run on it and can not legally be converted.I bet money even the new farm equipment is not designed to run on ethenal. In reality, that's only a small part of our industries that run on gas both mobile and stationary. this includes the trucker industry. Or country runs on wheels. Some truckers make good money but most just squeek by. there all working with differant contracts by the mile and most are none negotiable. It's find a company that pays better or starve out. Point is. These guys can't all buy new trucks. not even a small percent can and who in there right mind well let a driver trade in a 30 to 60,000 truck they cannot resell. as far as that goes same with our trucks and all the rest. All toll there are billions of engines out there that cannot be run on this stuf because of corrosion and it is emminete. In my mind we can relax. with or without the bill there will be gas. Price is another story.

So many problems .... So little time



entiland
Dodge Dakota
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5/24/2006
17:21:33

RE: Ethanol article
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Obio3, you need to do some more reading. All of the trucking industry and agriculture industry could never use Ethanol. All of those engines run on DIESEL. Bio-diesel can be produced and put directly into the tank and run through the engine. No mods required. If you google "rudolf diesel" you will find the man that created the engine. He started with the intent to run this engine off COAL DUST. When that did not work, he used peanut oil w/ success. He then "mysteriously" disappeared while waiting for a ship. Please get your facts straight before you post. Farmers could grow the fuel the put in the tractors, with no ill effects, then gas engines could be converted to ethanol, which is producded by the engines running biodiesel. OR if the gas engines cannot run ethanol, recycle them, and build new ethanol ones. The short term (100 years or so) solution is in our face, but BIG OIL and Congress will make this never happen. Meanwhile, Oil companies report record profits, government supports terrorists by buying their oil, and you and me get bent over all because we need to get to work.



readthis
Dodge Dakota
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5/24/2006
19:58:29

RE: Ethanol article
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Check out this link. The dakota doesn't even make the list.
http://www.e85fuel.com/information/daimler_chrysler.php



Billy Bob
Dodge Dakota
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5/25/2006
06:02:09

RE: Ethanol article
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here's a good ethanol link:
http://www.igreens.org.uk/ethanol_from_corn_.htm


just some quick facts:

Corn is the largest US crop, and teh US produces 44% of the world's corn.

Corn required more fertilizer than any other crop.

Corn Erodes soil 18 times faster than it can reform.

Nitrogen Fertilizer needed to grow corn:
is produced exclusively from natural gas,
requires 2 times as much energy as steel in its production,
All fertilizers must be granulated, packaged, and transported by vehicles on roads from factories to the farms.


We already no there are absolutely no Americans willing to do any field-related work, which I guess means that we will be dependant on other nations for our ethanol, while that nation is ploughed to useless dust in a few years of overusing its natural resources to grow this renewable resource for us.
why?

Producing 1 gallon of Ethanol will consume about 35 gallons of water.

A wet milling plant that processes the corn can generate as much waste as a medium size city.



What have we achieved from ethanol production thus far?

we have burned more fossil fuels than teh energy content of the ethanol.

we have degraded and eroded soil on millions of acres.

we have polluted surface and groundwater with nitrates, herbicides, pesticides, and ethanol waste.

we have polluted teh air with CO, NOx, SO2, VOC, etc.

we have continued to waste Billions of taxpayer dollars on corn subsidies.
the US pays our corn farmers $10 Billion/yr in subsidies.



2.3 - 2.66 gallons of ethanol from 1 bushel of corn.

currently 2.13 Billion gallons per year of ethanol is produced in the US on 6 million acres.

1.44 Billion gallons of gasoline burned per year to produce ethanol. (for just that 2.13B gallons of ethanol)



over 70% of gasoline produced in Southern California has switched from MTBE to ethanol.
The Federal ozone level exceedances in SoCal have spiked dramatically.

10% by volume ethanol blends have a 70-point poorer driveability index than MTBE or hydrocarbon blends.


basically Only the USDA says that ethanol is energy efficient. not exactly an impartial source.


(these facts were taken from the following research paper:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=2&q=http://pangea.stanford.edu/ESYS/Energy%2520seminars/patzek_ethanol.pdf&e=9797 )



currently ethanol costs more to produce per gallon than gasoline, in dollars.
in resources, ethanol is a huge waste and is very much harmful to our enironment far before it reaches our exhaust pipes as well as after, and is not worth the energy it took me to type all this.

lets try to find a more reasonable "alternative" fuel please!



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