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kaderast
Dodge Dakota
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2/09/2006
17:03:17
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 Subject: found this in my rear diff.
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I posted this about 9 months ago as well. I was changing my gear oil again, and keep finding new surprises in the bottom of my pumpkin.
I've learned that these are clutch retainers. I've heard also that there are either 2 or 4 of these in the diff, depending on what kind it is. Mine's just a regular chrysler 8.25.
What I do know is that I'm missing at least one of these completely, and another one has at least the side clip broken off.
The big question is: 1.) Does this just mean that my limited slip doesn't work anymore or 2.) My clutch packs are gonna fall out of place and pretty soon shi!'s gonna hit the fan?
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jerry
Dodge Dakota
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2/09/2006
17:27:50
| RE: found this in my rear diff.
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There was another post recently on this and the answer was something like the retainers are only used when the gears are installed to hold stuff together. After installation the gears hold each other so the clips are no longer necessary so not to worry. I think
that was the gist of the previous answer.
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toby
Dodge Dakota
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2/09/2006
18:31:32
| RE: found this in my rear diff.
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I got some bad news for ya man. ok what you have there is a clip that holds your clutch packs together there are two per clutch pack and you have two of those so you have 4 total. if those are falling out you do have a serious problem. cause they are inside of the differential itself. they should be under pressure all the time not allowing them to fall out plus. to anwser your question i would say yes if you have broken clutches or belvue washers in there (the things that make the pressure) your going to have lose peices thats not the problem you jsut pry dont have use of the limited slip. what will pry happen is some of those peices are going to go through the ring gear and pinion causeing them to take the teeth right off them and f*ck everything up in there. at the least what will happen is they will chew the crap outta the ring and pinion and pry make your rear end loud and eventual give out due to the material being hurt so bad. I would check to see what is loose in there make sure the bearing cap bolts are tight that there is no side to side movement in the diff. and that your ring isnt already chewed up. you might be able to get a flash light and look at the pinion too. The only reason i know this crap is cause i use to work at dana as a warranty anylsis engineer. seen stuff like this all the time.
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caulk04
GenIII
2/09/2006
19:05:03
| RE: found this in my rear diff.
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Well, I've seen that staple looking peice posted by a few people.
I found it on the magnet in my diff right after I bought my truck with 23K miles. I've got almost 52K on it now and lots of hard driving and several burnouts later, still fine. LSD works well still and no unusual noises.
'02 CC 4x4 4.7 HO
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2147050 <- Check it out!
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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2/09/2006
20:52:06
| RE: found this in my rear diff.
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I'm not going to disagree with anybody here but I do have my own opinion about this. I've seen those same pieces in several postings and other forums. I've heard stories of guys not having a problem because of it, at least not at the time of there writings. I've also seen diferentials distroyed and those piecse were amoung the busted teeth and gears. As often as I've seen this my contention is they need to be there for a reason. Far as I know, nobody ever took one apart that these parts was not in there. If it was my truck, I woupd be doing a tear down and put it back together as the book instructs. Just my opinion
So many problems .... So little time
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modain
GenIII
2/09/2006
21:22:48
|  RE: found this in my rear diff.
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Jerry cited the gist of one of my recent postings on this subject. I stand by my assertion that the clips are not necessary after installation based on conversations I have had with a mechanic (beyond) familiar with these rear ends.
The purpose of the magnet on the bottom of the housing is to catch the clip fragments and the metal shavings from the gear wear; to hold them instead of let them get caught up in the R&P.
Usually the rotating carrier flings the fragments outward, then they slide down to the bottom on top of the magnet. Sometimes when the pieces break off they will get chewed up by the R&P, then you have a nasty problem on your hands.
So far, three of my four have broken and been found on the magnet showing no signs of R&P interference. (And my gears have shown no evidence of clip chewage.) My LSD is functioning properly after 62K miles. I hope/expect to find the number four clip on the magnet at my next differential service.
You can do what you want, but as long as there is no damage present there is no need to rebuild the LSD unit until the clutches wear past the point of functioning.
Just my $.02...
What's your left foot doing?
=========================================
2002 Graphite QC SLT Plus, 4.7L, NV3500, Superchips 3715, 3.92 LSD, loads o'fun...
2001 Patriot Blue Durango SLT, 4.7L, 45RFE, Superchips 3715, 3.55 Open (for now)
1999 Forest Green Dakota RC Sport, 2.5L, NV1500, 3.55 Open
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Ornery Cuss
Dodge Dakota
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2/10/2006
05:41:49
| RE: found this in my rear diff.
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Message:
Just to offer my experience,Not to contrdict any opinions. 02 4x4 4.7 QC LSD 48K.
Had my diff serviced last summer and found said pieces, showed them to the local dealership service writer, he was scratchin his head when a tech. walked through the office, the service writer asked if they were important.The responce from the tech. was "they are very important", DC rebuilt the diff under warranty, no questions.
I will be looking very closley when I have it serviced again to see if there are any "extra" parts laying around inside.
Other than this and a minor water leak, no have had NO ISSUES with this truck.
OC
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RadioMan
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/10/2006
06:50:16
|  RE: found this in my rear diff.
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Message:
So not only do we worry about ball joints,
tranny problems, junk brakes, etc, etc, etc, now
add rear ends to the many problems DC builds into
their products.
I'm beginning to agree to a thread I read here a
few days ago from a guy warning all of us to
GET OUT NOW.
Remember the 70's when all the big three were
building such junk that Japan was taking over big
time? Well, it's happening again...
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kaderast
Dodge Dakota
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2/10/2006
09:11:53
| RE: found this in my rear diff.
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Message:
So what I'm picking up from this is that the retainers are used to hold the clutches together during installation, but are not really necessary for proper operation of the differential after that? Very interesting.
Another bit of information that I found interesting was that with my rearend completely off the ground and the tranny and transfer case in neutral, I can turn one back tire and the other one stays still. From what I've heard, this is the sign of a LSD, whereas an open diff will turn the other tire in the opposite direction at the same speed during such a test. So apparently my LSD still works.
I thoroughly inspected the teeth on all the gears while I was in there, all looked just fine. Not much in the way of filings on the magnet either (other than the two metal chunks). The rear end sounds just fine, no signs or sounds of poor operation. I guess we'll see what happens.....
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911mike
Dodge Dakota
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2/10/2006
13:37:20
| RE: found this in my rear diff.
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Message:
These retainers are not just to hold the clutch packs together during assembly.
The half-round section (not the 'staples' ends that break off) serve as a contact point between
the clutch 'ears' and the carrier. Once a retainer falls out of place, the clutch plates in that area now have about 3/16" of slack to take up each time the LSD functions, lots of stress that eventually breaks the 'ears' of the plates.
good photos to show your dealership for warranty work, source unknow:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y115/mlatour/clutchpacks.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y115/mlatour/clutches.jpg
2004 Ram 1500..love the truck, but hate the stupid
diff/clips..
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911mike
Dodge Dakota
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2/10/2006
14:05:34
| RE: found this in my rear diff.
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Message:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y115/mlatour/clutches.jpg
pinion gear turns the ring gear/carrier assy.,
transmits power thru the 'ears' of drive clutches,
(retainers located here between the 'ears' and carrier)
friction between the 'drive' and 'driven' clutches occurs,
driven clutches sends power to the spider gears via the splines,
spider gears drive the axles
so if your engine makes 300 lbs of torque,
multiplied by your trans and axle ratios,
divide that by four, that's how much stress
these little 4 retainers see each time you drive....
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Kowalski
GenIII
2/10/2006
15:26:05
| RE: found this in my rear diff.
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Message:
kaderast - "stays still" ? Might want to check that axle, or it could be damage in the diff; sign of a LSD is the other wheel turning in the same direction.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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davec
Dodge Dakota
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2/11/2006
08:05:32
| RE: found this in my rear diff.
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Message:
These clips are very neccessary. They are not used for installation. They do help keep the clutches in line for installation but the clutch packs must be compressed to install. They also serve a purpose to keep the clutches from floating when installed. Losing one of the clips or even two may not have an effect, but sooner or later, you will have pieces of clutches laying in the bottom of your diff. I've replaced so many diffs I've lost count. It is simply a poor design. I've seen the clips break on brand new vehicles and be fine on older ones. They break when they feel like it. The clips can be replaced and I would do it before the pieces float to the front and take out the pinion bearings. (which is normally what happens)
dave
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kaderast
Dodge Dakota
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2/11/2006
11:23:47
| RE: found this in my rear diff.
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This may be a stupid question, but can those clips be replaced without taking the entire differential out of the truck and completely tearing it apart?
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kaderast
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/14/2006
09:48:34
| RE: found this in my rear diff.
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anyone have an answer for this?
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modain
GenIII
2/14/2006
13:56:03
|  RE: found this in my rear diff.
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It requires a complete disassembly of the rear end carrier...
What's your left foot doing?
=========================================
2002 Graphite QC SLT Plus, 4.7L, NV3500, Superchips 3715, 3.92 LSD, loads o'fun...
2001 Patriot Blue Durango SLT, 4.7L, 45RFE, Superchips 3715, 3.55 Open (for now)
1999 Forest Green Dakota RC Sport, 2.5L, NV1500, 3.55 Open
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