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Turbofreak
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2004
10:20:41
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 Subject: Bypassing emissions devices...
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Well.... I was wondering how many emissions devices I can get away with eliminating once I put on my Turbo setup on my '02 Dak RC 4.7L...
I am going to eliminate all three cats, and I "think" there is only three 02 sensors??? and I can put an o2 eliminator on the third one, correct???
I am going to FMU it for fuel mapping and I have full access to the finest fabricators for exhaust/ intercooler-boost tubing work... I saw some type of emissions canister-box under the bed, and the hoses on it were badly cracked, etc...
I have never ever had a MIL light come on, not even for a gas cap being loose or anything, so I don't want to screw that up....
Thanks!!
RYNO
TURBOFREAK
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Turbofreak
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2004
10:23:50
|  RE: Bypassing emissions devices...
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yes, I know that it is illegal... I don't care... my dakota with a turbo will still probably pass an emissions test without cats, and besides, we don't have emissions tests here were I live, and I work at the hot rod shop anyways and know lots of people for inpspections, etc. for future use, so please don't EPA nazi on me.... talk to the people with soot covered tailpipes with their high mileage volkswagen buses and save the whales stickers... ;-)
RYNO
TURBOFREAK
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?
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2004
11:33:09
| RE: Bypassing emissions devices...
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Not much else available to remove ??!!
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Turbofreak
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2004
11:38:09
| RE: Bypassing emissions devices...
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yes, I know, but will removing anything else cause any problems.... like the pcv.... putting on a crankcase breather, etc...
you know??
RYNO
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lacent
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2004
11:41:07
| RE: Bypassing emissions devices...
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well seeing as how most of the emissions are internal on our 4.7's its gonna be kinda hard to remove most of it, i would start with some new pistons and a FAST engine management system, that will let you be able to remove most of the performance reducing emissions control devices
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RadioMan
Dodge Dakota
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10/08/2004
06:49:35
|  RE: Bypassing emissions devices...
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With todays computer controled engines, removing
anything will cause great problems!
About the only thing you can remove and the
check engine light staying off would be the last
converter in the exhaust system.
I also heard that some states are now going after
people that trade in their units and now owned by
someone else for missing emission parts IF the
new owner can prove he was not the one that
removed it in the first place.
Better think twice before doing anything
anymore.
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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10/08/2004
09:04:46
| RE: Bypassing emissions devices...
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Besides the obvious commission of a felony (regardless of whether you have testing), I have to ask, why you think removing these will help anything? It will not.
Since you are alive, you apparently breathe air. So you ought to care, since you are assaulting yourself as well as others. Think of the ludicrous image of someone punching themselves as hard as they can, or deliberately breathing a canister of poison gas through a mask without suidical inclinations, and this is no different from what you are doing by removing those controls.
Catcons reduce HC emissions by 90%.
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Turbofreak
Dodge Dakota
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10/08/2004
09:40:57
| RE: Bypassing emissions devices...
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Ok, it was obviously a mistake to even ask this on this forum... I have much more knowledge of the subject I guess than most of you on here...
Thank you to those who answered about the limit of what emissions devices were onboard my truck..
As for removing the two cats right after the manifolds causing some O2 sensor problems, I doubt it becuase the only reason that they would throw a code would be that there is not enough heat being retained in the system and they would show lean... But, I am putting a turbo on after these sensors, so that should keep some backpressure on the exhaust to keep the sensors happy... I am replacing the pressure from the catcons with a turbocharger turbine and housing..;-)
To those who answered about removing the devices such as the cats not being legal or that it will instantly turn me into a gross polluter... think about it... how many diesels do you see rolling away from a light with a huge plume of black smoke rolling out of their exhuast?? Do you know how much NOx and HC a normal diesel truck puts out??? do you have any idea?? or just that you have been told that cars without catalytic converters are bad and are killing our planet... WRONG!!!!
Large industrial pollution in countries like Mexico and China are doing more to kill the world's ecosystem than those vehicles running around without catalytic converters....
By the way.... Did you know that even the newest designed catalytic converters are only about 50% effective after about 30,000 miles???
Do you know why you can buy a Japanese pull out engine with only 30,000 miles on it for so cheap???
It is not because they are junk!!! It is because Japan has such strict emissions standards that they require either a rebuild or a full refurbish of all emissions equipment on the vehicle after 2 years or about 30,000 miles.. It is cheaper to just sell the car for scrap or to be cut up and sent to some other country... This includes HONDuhs, Toyotas, Nissans, etc....
Did anyone notice that the 4.7L is listed as a LEV already on the window sticker?? This means that although the catalytic converters do scrub some harmful exhaust byproducts, they do not do miracles... the basic design of the engine for combustion chamber efficiencies and exhaust/intake design are the main contributors to the engine's cleanliness...
Thank you all for your opinions and thoughts and warnings... I do not plan on ever trading my truck in or selling it.... if I do, I also plan on keeping my entire stock exhaust system intact and I also plan on keeping everything I ever modify reversible... so, no worries....
Thanks,
RYNO
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Man...
Dodge Dakota
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10/08/2004
11:27:56
| RE: Bypassing emissions devices...
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You're a JACKA$$!! All those lecturing you are right. If everyone thought like you, we would be in huge trouble. You may not think that removing those things is going to harm the environment, but YOU are WRONG! Every person that does not have the proper controlson their vehicle is part of the problem, and that includes you. So why not just be a little smarter, and keep the mechanisms on the vehicle that make it an LEV? I know why you don't...because you're a JACKA$$!!
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Turbofreak
Dodge Dakota
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10/08/2004
11:44:35
|  RE: Bypassing emissions devices...
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WHO THE He11 are you??? You sure don't come across very clearly, maybe it is because you mumble when you have your head up your a$$!!!!
Get with it man... you simple fu(kers don't know your butt from a hole in the ground...
When you all quit being brainwashed by the EPA nazi idiots, you will realize what I have said is true...
Lookup some tables on particulate emissions outputs for standard diesel engines versus even a gasoline musclecar in good tune.... even with leaded race gas....
That's right, leaded gas... which is what I plan on running on the rare occasions I want to do some street racing or go to the drag strip and turn up the boost to 10psi or so....
Wow, that should really get you guys going now...
street racing, leaded fuel on the street, with no catalytic converters, running leaded gas through o2 sensors, running a non-stock setup on a stock appearing truck... mind blowing isn't it...
;-)
Btw- leaded gas will not kill o2 sensors if used on occasion only and/or mixed with premium fuel... the sensor heater will keep it warm enough to keep it from loading up with any lead, plus, if the vehicle is tuned correctly even with leaded gas, the o2 sensors will last almost as long as with normal gas... I know, I have a friend with a Toyota Supra that runs C-16 race gas all the time with two o2 sensors, the stock sensor and a wideband sensor... also, did I mention that I am going to have a wideband sensor onboard my truck... it's not stock, so maybe the epa nazi's will try to get me...
I know people and I know how to get stuff done...
I feel sorry for all of you who close themselves up in a box of lies told by those who want to control you.
GOOD LUCK!!!
RYNO
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2003flrt
Dodge Dakota
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10/08/2004
17:08:46
|  RE: Bypassing emissions devices...
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Grow up!!!!!!!
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android287
GenIII
10/08/2004
20:22:41
| RE: Bypassing emissions devices...
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If everyone makes a difference then why are older vehicles excluded from emissions?
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
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10/08/2004
20:36:16
| RE: Bypassing emissions devices...
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Arnie just made sure they're not exempt in CA - just signed into law that they have to test, too.
Lots of insults, but the fact remains that catcons reduce HC emissions by about 90%. Yes, there are LOTS of other sources of pollution out there. So why ADD to it? Why make it worse when you can hold the line? You cannot justify polluting more because others are allowed to pollute. If you recognize the problem, then you should support cleaning up those other sources. BTW, diesels will be tested eventually.
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MoparMadness
Dodge Dakota
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10/09/2004
17:04:19
| RE: Bypassing emissions devices...
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Turbofreak, go ahead and super modify your truck, and all you people doubting him dont know your facts:
Since 1967, carbon monoxide levels in the air have dropped 73%!
nitrogen dioxide is down 41.7%!
sulfur dioxide is down 67%!
If you think pollution on earth is spiralling out of control, you are sadly mistaken. The atmosphere is CLEANER than it has been in 37 years! If you think that one high performance KICK @$$ truck is going to ruin that trend, you are sadly mistaken.
His highly modified truck still wont be producing as much pollution as a Nascar racer or NHRA dragster, and if you posted on this stream against Turbofreak and you watch either of these two events, you are a HYPOCRITE, bec by watching these events, you are SUPPORTING pollution! Oh yeah, if any of yall are running parts from GS Motorsports or Hooker headers, along with countless other performance parts, including Some Mopar parts, you are running non pollution controlled items, and could be polluting too, so back off of Turbofreak.
Another thing, every time you see a junker running down the road, spilling oil and smoking all over the place, that engine is polluting a whole not more than Turbofreaks engine is. An old, poorly maintained engine will put a whole lot more pollution into the atmosphere than a modified engine will.
Now then, that said, I hope one of you pull up next to him at a traffic light one day and get your @$$ smoked!
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caulk04
Dodge Dakota
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10/09/2004
17:50:13
| RE: Bypassing emissions devices...
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I'm not going to pick sides here...but I do have a question.
What do you think you can gain by removing the cats? Modern cats flow very well, and I don't think they could hurt you at all.
The two precats WILL affect O2 sensor readings. The only reason heat matters with O2's is so they take readings on a warm engine, not when it is cold and running rich. Removing the cats will cause the downstream sensors to read rich and run the engine very lean on its programmed fuel maps.
My suggestion, buy a couple aftermarket, high flow cats and KEEP the air clean.
One truck won't make a difference to the big picture, but the next guy, and the next guy and so on can't think the same way or the air WON'T be clean anymore.
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jjj
Dodge Dakota
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10/09/2004
17:58:16
| RE: Bypassing emissions devices...
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Quote "As for removing the two cats right after the manifolds causing some O2 sensor problems, I doubt it becuase the only reason that they would throw a code would be that there is not enough heat being retained in the system and they would show lean... But, I am putting a turbo on after these sensors, so that should keep some backpressure on the exhaust to keep the sensors happy... I am replacing the pressure from the catcons with a turbocharger turbine and housing..;-) "
Obviously not as smart as you think, the reason it will throw a code has NOTHING to do with heat. It has to do with the fact that the PCM looks at both sensor reading to make sure the CAT is working. Nothing about heat, the O2's have built in heaters just simple emissions.
You will need O2 sims to bypass this problem.
Jeff
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JKH
Dodge Dakota
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10/09/2004
22:32:25
| RE: Bypassing emissions devices...
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the reason that people dont just upgrade their cats is because how expensive they are. The car sound cat alone is $100, and you have to have more than one, while you can get a nice new muffler for around $60. And plus, bec of the nature of what cats are for, they have to be replaced to keep them free flowing and doing their job, so once a cat is worn out, it is just easier and cheaper to nix them than to get a new one.
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.....
Dodge Dakota
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10/09/2004
22:37:50
| RE: Bypassing emissions devices...
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catalytic converters are like filters on a cigarette, no matter what you flow the gases through, they are still lethal. The only way to stop the pollution is to stop driving or to come up with cost effective alternate fuel vehicles
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redneck
Dodge Dakota
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10/09/2004
23:03:17
| RE: Bypassing emissions devices...
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Anybody here ever rip the "do not remove....") tag off your mattress.
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Dan M
Dodge Dakota
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10/09/2004
23:15:36
| RE: Bypassing emissions devices...
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I'm curious, what state do you live in?
- Dan M
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Kowalski
GenIII
10/10/2004
08:51:13
| RE: Bypassing emissions devices...
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There seems to be some confusion on both sides of this issue. There is probably around 10 hp to be had by removing the cats; but just because the stcker says LEV doesn't mean those cats aren't part of the reason its a low emissions vehicle. Also not all pollution equipment hurts performance - the vapor cannister isn't slowing you down. A Nascar race causes less pollution than one jumbo jet trip - and many more people get to enjoy it. Another modded truck has much less effect - are all you naysayers avoiding vacation flights to do your part for the environment ? I doubt it. Good luck with your truck, just try to realize not all pollution control is bad.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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