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GraphiteDak
GenIII
 
8/12/2004
23:31:42
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 Subject: RE: I'll tell you why you can't get a hemi!
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Hemi-Smemi. It's more marketing than anything.
I think the 4.7 is pretty much more advanced than the HEMI. And I too read it was cheaper for DC to make the Hemi than the 4.7
The 4.7 is almost as much a Hemi as the new 5.7 carrying the name.
Sh*t. All Toyota 22R's and most other 4 bangers HAVE BEEN Hemi's since the 80's. I noticed that back when i worked on them in a shop some years ago.
Dodge sure kicked a$$ when they came up with the original HEMI which definitely impacted drag racing engines for years.
But I think they are just trying to milk what they can from the patent at this point :-P
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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8/12/2004
23:32:02
| RE: I'll tell you why you can't get a hemi!
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Yeah, and they said a V8 wouldn't fit in a Gen1Dak either.
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Martin
GenII
8/13/2004
19:42:52
|  RE: I'll tell you why you can't get a hemi!
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Ok some of you guys just don't like change I guess. Your completey happy with you 40 year old engines and there with never be anything made that can even equal them. (sarcasm)
425 hp out of only 370 ci is pretty good for a NA street engine and it is almost equal in hp and torque to the old 426 ci Hemi with better streetability and mpg. Plus it will give the corvette LS6 engine a run for its money with less ci. I am sure the 6.1 or 5.7 Hemi would fit in the new Dakota just fine if the big old OHC 4.7 can fit. Maybe dodge should scrap the 4.7 (its just a copy of the Ford OHV V8 design anyway) and build a smaller displacement Hemi with around 270 hp and hey while there at it a V6 to(they made a Hemi slant 6).
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
8/13/2004
21:13:59
| RE: I'll tell you why you can't get a hemi!
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..."Maybe dodge should scrap the 4.7 (its just a copy of the Ford OHV V8 design anyway) and build a smaller displacement Hemi with around 270 hp and hey while there at it a V6 to(they made a Hemi slant 6).
"
HEY. Them is fighting words!!!
Sure. Take my beloved 4.7 away and give me a engine that takes me 3 times as long to change the cam and has pushrods, and all the other OLD FASHIONED engineering :-P
New is good with me. yet I like the 318 and 360 as well. Hemi is cool and all but the 4.7 kicks a$$ as far as design, i.e. O-Rings instead of gaskets, no spark plug wires, no heated intake manifold, etc etc etc...
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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8/13/2004
21:30:03
| RE: I'll tell you why you can't get a hemi!
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If you apply the same technology to a 426 Hemi that is in the new Hemi, you get the same degree of performance improvement, and since it's a bigger displacement, it'll knock out 650hp without really tryin' with a better mileage score, and cleaner emissions to boot. As I said before, strip the new Hemi and old 360 down to the block, they look pretty much the same. Where's the improvement? So the ring lands are higher in the pistons now. Big deal. That can be done with any engine. Heads. Make the Hemi heads so they can be bolted onto the 360. Anyone checked out the cam specs on the new Hemi? Quite a bit more cam. It's not just the heads. What's the difference? The "New" engine generates hype, and a profit premium. Once again. The SAME thing could be done to ANY other engine and the same results would be realized, but it can't be billed as "All new." Open your eyes.
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Mopar318
Dodge Dakota
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8/14/2004
00:33:38
| RE: I'll tell you why you can't get a hemi!
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For all of you that are wondering about a 5.7 Hemi in the new Dakotas, I have some info to share. I read a newsletter that DaimlerChrysler provides to all of it's employees a few months ago. The front page showed the 05 Dakota being debuted at, if I'm not mistaken, a special ceremony. I don't think it was affiliated with any major show. Anyway, they gave all the specs in the article, it stated that the available engines were: Standard - 3.7L OHC V6, Opt. - 4.7L OHC V8, and opt. - 4.7L OHC HO V8. Not trying to bash anybodys info or sources, just thought I would share the information, doesn't mean rumors aren't going around within DC, but all that I have only heard about on these boards. Just thought I'd put in what I know.
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Martin
GenII
8/14/2004
09:27:02
| RE: I'll tell you why you can't get a hemi!
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Bolt a brand new Hemi head on a 40 year old bottom end? There are many improvements in strength and weight savings to the new Hemi block they share nothing with the old SB design. Any freaking block looks the same if you strip the heads off them no matter what the brand. You can't look at the outside of the block and tell what is going on on the inside. And i doubt very much dodge would spend millions of dollars to build a new engine that is just a SB with Hemi heads.
Eh those ain't fighting words graphitedak I just don't care for the lack of aftermarket support for the 4.7 and the fact that the OHC engine is not used to is potential in a pickup. The OHC engine is a high winding you don't want high rpm power in a pickup. It would be much more at home in a smaller lighter car that does not have to tow anything. But i think that is the battle of the future OHC vs push rod. LS6 push rod, north star OHC, Hemi push rod, 4.7 OHC, Viper push rod, Ford um OHC don't know about push rod, it is the same mix through out the rest of the world. The technology is there now where a push rod engine can equal OVC engine with less expense, weight and size although not at as high of rpm. The 4.7 dakotas are pretty nice though I would take one but not a 4.7 ram that is a bit much for that engine.
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Kowalski
GenIII
8/14/2004
11:27:42
| RE: I'll tell you why you can't get a hemi!
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Just because the OHC design can pull some revs doesn't mean that's where all the power is. That depends more on things like camshaft grind, exhaust and intake design than placement of the cam in the engine. Many people seem to make this mistake; I would guess because their first experience with OHC design was probably high winding, smaller engines. Where the cam resides in the engine actually has nothing to do with the power characteristics.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Martin
GenII
8/14/2004
15:06:10
| RE: I'll tell you why you can't get a hemi!
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Well yeah not all OHC engines are high winding but that is what the purpose of the OHC is to get the push rods out of the way of the ports to breath better at higher rpms plus the OHC valvetrain can withstand higher rpms. Of course you could put a small cam in it am small ports but that is just a waist of time and money making a OHC engine with the powerband of a push rod engine.
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Kowalski
GenIII
8/15/2004
08:14:13
| RE: I'll tell you why you can't get a hemi!
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Be advised that some of us don't consider a more reliable valve train with easier to replace cams a waste of time. Try to look at the big picture - you end up with an efficient, reliable engine. Push rod engines can have very different power bands too. Power should be where its needed for use as a truck, regardless of engine design.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2004
18:57:41
| RE: I'll tell you why you can't get a hemi!
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Show me ANY OEM crank today that is as strong as the OEM nitride-hardened crank in the 426 Hemi. Weight savings? Until they start making cranks, blocks,cams and rods out of plastic...please.
Martin, once again. It's the technology used to manage the process more than anything else. Are you saying that adding all new technology to a 40 year old engine would not result in a dramatic increase in efficiency? Perhaps even a 10+ year old engine design....like the Magnum 360?
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