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General Dakota Board
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RadioMan
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/08/2004
06:42:39
|
 Subject: ATF+4 $6.00 a Quart!
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I didn't want to buy the oil well! All I wanted to
do was change transmission filers (2) and replace
the fluid. No auto parts store had ATF+4 so to the
dealer I went. $6.00 plus a quart! It bought 10
and used 8. Diamler Chrysler, you ripped me off
again! ATF+3 at the auto parts was $3.00 a quart.
Has anyone noticed that ever sence Diamler got
their hands into Chrysler, things have REALLY gone
to sh**?
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
6/08/2004
08:22:11
|  Amsoil reports DC ATF+4 complaint filed --- Amzoil
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FYI (and read between the lines as to how D/C unfairly treats its customers)
The Independent Lubricant Manufacturers Association (ILMA) filed a complaint with the U.S. Federal Trade Commission last week, accusing DaimlerChrysler Corp. of unfair trade practices for the handling of its most up-to-date automatic transmission fluid specification.
ILMA: DaimlerChrysler Unfair to Independents
Reported in "LUBE REPORT"
Industry News from the highly respected Lubes-n-Greases Trade Magazine
Wednesday, November 19, 2003
By Tim Sullivan
The Independent Lubricant Manufacturers Association filed a complaint with the U.S. Federal Trade Commission last week, accusing DaimlerChrysler Corp. of unfair trade practices for the handling of its most up-to-date automatic transmission fluid specification.
The association said the automaker has blocked blenders from making and selling its ATF+4 fluid – which was adopted in 1999 and is now recommended for most Chrysler vehicles. In addition it accused the company of leveraging its monopoly on the transmission fluid to muscle motor oil sales away from lubricant companies.
“To Chrysler, this probably is another revenue stream for a product code,” Executive Director Celeste Powers said. “However, to ILMA members this is unfair competition which hurts motorists.”
Chrysler first advised dealers in October 1999 that it had begun factory filling certain vehicles with ATF+4 and that they should service those vehicles with the same fluid, instead of the previous fluid, ATF+3. Two years later, the company advised that ATF+4 should be used in all vehicles with automatic transmissions except minivans built before 2000.
The association’s complaint said that Lubrizol is the exclusive manufacturer of chemistry for ATF+4 and that DaimlerChrysler has contracted Petro-Canada and ChevronTexaco to supply the fluid. The complaint said ILMA members that marketed earlier versions of the fluid requested the ATF+4 formula from DaimlerChrysler but were turned down. Members also contacted Lubrizol, ChevronTexaco and Petro-Canada but were told that those companies’ contracts with the automaker prohibited them from sharing the formula or reselling the fluid.
According to the complaint, such practices violate provisions of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which prohibits automakers from conditioning warranties on the use of named oils or parts unless the automaker provides them for free or demonstrates that available alternatives will not function adequately.
The association noted that other automakers avoid the problem by licensing products that meet their specifications. ILMA officials said DaimlerChrysler has made formulas and specifications for previous fluids available to blenders.
The association said it urged DaimlerChrysler a year ago to establish a licensing program for ATF+4 and has tried several times since then to engage the company in discussions. ILMA legal counsel Jeffrey L. Leiter said the association has received no response.
“We tried to work this out with them but they’ve ignored us at every step of the way,” he said.
DaimlerChrysler did not return phone calls seeking comment.
The complaint said DaimlerChrysler “has taken its anticompetitive actions… one step further ”by allowing dealers to buy bulk volumes of ATF+4 only in combination with bulk purchases of their own Mopar brand motor oil. Dealers that decline the offer incur greater costs to buy the transmission fluid in smaller volumes.
ILMA’s complaint asked the trade commission to investigate its allegations and to compel DaimlerChrysler to cease its practices. Officials acknowledged that the case does not involve a large amount of ATF+4, but said they are concerned about the possibility of other automakers imitating DaimlerChrysler’s actions.
“If Chrysler can get away with this, it will embolden other original equipment manufacturers, so ILMA had to take a stand,” Powers commented.
--------------------------------------------------
My Opinion: That is why ATF+4 is expensive and also why D/C Dealers push the Mopar brand of oil ... to obtain the bulk discount prices on the ATF+4.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
6/08/2004
08:30:09
| Amsoil vs. Daimler Chrysler ATF+4 ----- Amzoil
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--------------------------------------------------
Chrysler went from ATF+ (MS 7176B) to ATF+4 in less than ten years. Essentially they were trying to make up for shifting problems in some of their transmissions by "tweaking" the frictional properties of their fluid rather than recalling the affected units. The ATF+4 fluid does seem to have solved the problems with some of the transmissions from the mid 1990's.
However, I know many Dodge owners that have noticeable and significant improvements switching to Amsoil Universal Synthetic ATF. They state that the transmission characteristics are better than when it was new. Yes we all know ... transmissions from different manufacturers use various types of clutch pack materials. So ... is it possible to formulate a single fluid that will behave differently in GM, Ford and Chrysler transmissions? The specifications for friction characteristics are for how the fluid behaves in the particular application, given the types of materials used in that transmission. They are not the stand alone properties of the fluid, which is where I think the misunderstanding comes in.
Amsoil Synthetic ATF is truely "Universal"
Amsoil did offer a Synthetic ATF specifically for ATF +3/+4 applications about 3-4 years ago. However once they were able to integrate this additive chemistry into their Dexron/Mercon formulation, they discontinued making this second fluid.
__________  __________
AMSOIL Synthetic Universal ATF
Recommended for applications requiring the following specifications:
Chrysler ATF+, ATF+2, ATF+3, ATF+4
-------------------------------------------------
AMSOIL synthetic automatic transmission fluid is a universal ATF designed to "EXCEED" nearly all foreign and domestic performance requirements. It improves fuel efficiency, reduces transmission temperatures by 20 to 50 degrees F and increases transmission life. Provides unsurpassed thermal stability and at least "3 TIMES THE LIFE" of conventional ATFs. Delivers maximum protection for towing and other severe-duty applications. Formulated with synthetic basestocks and the "TOP_OF_THE_LINE" additive package, AMSOIL ATF provides top performance, durability & efficiency.
Key Benefits to You:
Cleaner transmission components, More efficient power transfer, Lower Transmission temperatures, Dramatically less transmission wear, Smoother cold temperature operation, Long drain intervals. Compatible Applications: Nearly all passenger cars (foreign & domestic), Nearly all light duty trucks (including Dodge Dakotas).
__________________________________________________
Don't be distracted by the "Universal" one size fits all language on our Amsil Synthetic Universal ATF Bottles, or in our literature. Pennzoil & Quaker State also offer their own Multi-Vehicle ATF.
__________________________________________________
Because sooooo many people have asked the same question ... I forwarded the question to Amsoil in the past. Here is their response ... AND I LIKE IT:
"The AMSOIL ATF is far superior to an ATF blended with hydro treated naphthenic oil. Secondly it uses a premium additive chemistry that meets the static and dynamic coefficient of friction parameters to meet ATF+4 requirements. It also meets the coefficients of friction parameters for MERCON, MERCON V, DEXRON III, and Diamond SPIII.
Although the additive chemistry may be slightly different the exclusive MOPAR fluid from the factory, it still follows suit with the parameters set forth by Daimler Chrysler. All AMSOIL lubricants are designed to improve performance and increase protection to engine and transmission components."
"Further more, Chrysler developed the +4 spec to "fix" an inherent chattering problem with the Chrysler transmissions. That is the sole reason why Chrysler recommends +4 fluid and this is why nobody offers a +4 fluid. On the other hand there are fluids that are far superior to Chryslers +4 specs, including ours!"
"We didn’t just one day decide to make this claim just for the heck of it. This was very carefully researched and we have been developing superior fluids for over 30 years. We certainly would not recommend fluids we knew were going to cause problems. Why would anyone who wants to stay in business??"
__________________________________________________
Interested In Requesting a FREE Amsoil Catalog click the following link.
Thank You,
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
6/08/2004
08:51:59
| Amsoil vs. Daimler Chrysler ATF+4 ----- Amzoil
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RadioMan,
Actually $6 a quart is a good price. The last time I checked it was closer to $8 a quart, or $30 a gallon.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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ZenDak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/08/2004
09:34:30
|  RE: ATF+4 $6.00 a Quart!
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Message:
what does Amsoil Universal cost about per quart?
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Mudlizard
Dodge Dakota
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6/08/2004
16:38:43
| RE: ATF+4 $6.00 a Quart!
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Radioman got away cheap.....I paid 8.95 a qt and bought 9 to do a filter change.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
6/08/2004
19:35:04
| Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF --- Retail Pricing
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Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF --- Retail Pricing
(preferred customers receive discounted pricing of approximately 20%)
Product Codes - Quantity/Size - Retail Pricing
ATF-QT - (1) quart bottle ------------ $7.80
ATF-01 - (12) quart bottles --------- $92.40
ATF-TP - (1) 2 1/2-gallon bottle ---- $74.25
ATF-05 - (2) 2 1/2-gallon bottles - $146.50
ATF-30 - (1) 30-gallon drum ------- $689.00
ATF-55 - (1) 55-gallon drum ----- $1,181.00
__________________________________________________
You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking the following link.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
6/08/2004
19:45:52
| DODGE DEALERSHIPS NOW ENDORSE (offer) AMSOIL
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I am going to quote a Member of this website, BigBlue QC. (He won't mind ... I have exchanged emails with him on a few occassions).
BigBlue QC states:
"I have had perfect luck with AMSOIL ATF in my trans, it has been in the truck for 60000 miles, tested twice, with perfect results each time. Good luck. 14 quarts for a complete flush, another 1-1/2 quarts if you have a 4x4 for the transfer case, which you have to drain and re-fill. You will need a pump for the transfer case to re-fill. If you bought whatever you decide locally why can't you return whatever you don't open??? Having an extra 2 quarts on hand while doing this is not a bad thing as a just in case."
" ... the 14 quarts is with the tranny cooler as I have one also." "... it has been over a year since I changed the transfer case to AMSOIL ATF. I remember filling to the hole level and then buttoning it up. Haven't had any problems with it. I am a preferred customer for AMSOIL (I pay the $20/year to get the wholesale pricing) and I remember it is cheaper to get the bigger jugs of fluid, like 2-1/2 gallons, when you need larger quantities. 2-1/2 gallons is 10 quarts, if you got two of them it should be enough for the trans, transfer case, and power steering. Yes, I have changed the power steering fluid in my truck to AMSOIL ATF also(my year uses ATF+4 as the ps fluid) with no regrets."
__________________________________________________
Everyone Respects Larry of J&J Auto ... correct?
Here is his quote from another thread (hope you don't mind Larry!
Larry of J&J Auto stated:
"Amsoil Universal Trans fluid or the chrysler ATF+4 are the only fluids we use in these trans at the shop.
I have been running it (Amsoil) in my trans for about 30,000 miles now, made the trans shift smother and run almost 30 degrees cooler. I also run it in my transfer case.
I run all Amsoil even the rear ends and grease it with the syn fortified with molly. Yes I have a trans temp guage in my truck also a nordask Air/Fuel meter on its own o2 so I can monitor my stroker very closely
The Amsoil runs very good in these transmissions."
Larry
J&J Auto
__________________________________________________
DODGE DEALERSHIPS NOW ENDORSE (offer) AMSOIL !!!
This was posted by Sephiroth 3/20/2004
V8 Forum --- Subject: New Chrysler Product?!
Message posted by Sephiroth:
"I went in to have my brakes checked today, and when I walked into the garage the first thing I saw made my jaw hit the floor. My local dealership now uses and sells AMSOIL products!! They've got it posted on a big banner over the service-desks. GM may not have been able to get it for their 'vettes, but obviously Dodge was able to, or they found out how awesome it is and started buying at regular price! When I go in for a tranny-filter, fluid, and gasket change next week, it's getting filled with AMSOIL."
Sephiroth went on to state:
"This is at the Raleigh, NC dealership, Al Smith Buick, Dodge, Mazda. I told the guy at the desk I was astounded to see them using AMSOIL and that I had been using it for a while now. After he rode in the truck he said he'd be switching next oil-change in his Ram.
As for me, I've got it in the engine, and I'll have it in the tranny soon! Next up are the differentials. After that I need to get a dyno just for curiosity's sake. IF I get 3-5hp form the differential, and God knows how much from the engine and tranny, that'll be enough without any heavy mods. Well, for all I do anyway. If it is a significant gain, I'll post the results."
__________________________________________________
... and as part of the same thread jeremiah2360 stated:
"Norwood (MA) Dodge sells Amsoil too."
__________________________________________________
Dodge Dealerships are beginning to realize that Amsoil offers a FULL LINE of Premium Synthetic Lubricants and Dodge Dealerships are beginning to offer Amsoil.
Why ...
1) Dodge knows Amsoil meets AND exceeds Dodge's requirements.
2) Because their customers are asking for Amsoil.
3) Amsoil = 30 Year History of Research and Development
4) Amsoil offers the best Synthetic Lubricants
__________________________________________________
Larry of J&J Auto stated on another thread.
"I also swear by Amsoil, I run it everywhere .. rear's, trans, grease. I like the origanal 10w30 turbo, also helps gas mileage and performance using all Amsoil fluids.
__________________________________________________
Interested in Amsoil for your Dakota or other vehicles?
You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking below.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/08/2004
22:47:44
| RE: ATF+4 $6.00 a Quart!
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Message:
It's funny how DC forced me to switch to Amsoil since I wasn't going to pay $8/qt for hydrocracked dino fluid when full synthetic Amsoil ATF less than $6/qt.
If your warranty is still in effect and you want to run ATF+4 from the dealer ask for their preferred pricing, $5/qt instead of $8/qt. The dealer will sell to you at list price unless you ask for thier preferred pricing. I have asked for their preferred pricing on several dealer only items and them have dropped the price 20-30%, no questions asked.
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/08/2004
23:50:13
| RE: ATF+4 $6.00 a Quart!
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Message:
Oh, on another note, I also felt screwed by DC when they said ATF+4 was the only ATF recommended for my 2000 45RFE auto trans.
Especially since my owners manual specified ATF+3 for the tranny and the tranny had gone 70-80K on ATF+3.
Hmm,,,,,,
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GB2000
GenIII
6/09/2004
01:23:06
| RE: ATF+4 $6.00 a Quart!
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Message:
I do believe +3 will work...especially since they used to use it in there, but they've now decided +4 works best.
Josh
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
6/09/2004
08:30:13
| DODGE DEALERSHIPS NOW ENDORSE (sell) AMSOIL
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Repeat.
Chrysler went from ATF+ (MS 7176B) to ATF+2, to ATF+3, to ATF+4 in less than ten years.
The ATF+4 ... Essentially they were trying to make up for shifting problems in some of their transmissions by "tweaking" the frictional properties of their fluid rather than recalling the affected units. The ATF+4 fluid does seem to have solved the problems with some of the transmissions from the mid 1990's. If you are going to use the DC brand, use ATF+4.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/10/2004
14:37:39
| RE: ATF+4 $6.00 a Quart!
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Message:
.
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Brad
Dodge Dakota
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11/28/2007
15:42:36
| RE: ATF+4 $6.00 a Quart!
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I hate D/C
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..
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/28/2007
16:28:01
| RE: ATF+4 $6.00 a Quart!
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that's ok, I hate pushy Amsoil dealers more than DC
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.....
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/28/2007
16:29:56
| RE: ATF+4 $6.00 a Quart!
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I hate the guy that goes by the name two dots
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check it out
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/28/2007
17:17:54
| RE: ATF+4 $6.00 a Quart!
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walmart now carries genuine MOPAR ATF+4
and genuine MOPAR oil filters !
|
check it out
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/28/2007
17:19:12
| RE: ATF+4 $6.00 a Quart!
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walmart now carries genuine MOPAR ATF+4
and genuine MOPAR oil filters !
both at great prices
|
check it out
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/28/2007
17:19:38
| RE: ATF+4 $6.00 a Quart!
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walmart now carries genuine MOPAR ATF+4
and genuine MOPAR oil filters !
both at great prices
|
check it out
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/28/2007
17:20:16
| RE: ATF+4 $6.00 a Quart!
IP: Logged
Message:
walmart now carries genuine MOPAR ATF+4
and genuine MOPAR oil filters !
both at great prices
|
check it out
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/28/2007
17:21:07
| RE: ATF+4 $6.00 a Quart!
IP: Logged
Message:
walmart now carries genuine MOPAR ATF+4
and genuine MOPAR oil filters !
both at great prices
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