Forums
Forum Tools
|
 |
09:51:15 - 04/28/2024
General Dakota Board
| From | Message |
TECH
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2004
17:44:30
|
 Subject: Flushed trans fluid.....and a Q
IP: Logged
Message:
Hey all. Today, I flushed my 45rfe, and refilled with Amsoil atf. I pulled the cooler line off at the cooler, and pumped out most, if not all, the old fluid from the torque converter. Pretty easy job, just needed a crow's foot to get the line off the cooler....
Anyways, I figure that I used 2.5 gallons of fluid, which is almost the capacity of the trans, maybe I used a bit more.
My question is, for those of you that have done the fluid change, at 30k, how did the original atf+4 look? When I pulled the pan, I was amazed that the old fluid was a clean red color, and there was no clutch material to speak of in the pan, just a little on the magnet.
At 30k miles, I figured the fluid would look worse......which is why I'm not sure if I got all the old fluid out when I flushed it, the old and new were the same color!
I got the truck with 23k miles on it, and wonder if the trans has been serviced or replaced already.......thoughts?
Thanks.
|
kj
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2004
17:57:12
| RE: Flushed trans fluid.....and a Q
IP: Logged
Message:
My 2000 uses ATF+3 and I did my first change at 36,000 and the fluid looked and smelled fine. The filter didn't seem to have a lot of junk in it either. Some of the Dodge garage mechanics I have talked to have told me that the 30,000 change is basically if you tow or work it hard. Hope that helps.
|
Bandman
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2004
18:21:41
| RE: Flushed trans fluid.....and a Q
IP: Logged
Message:
did you adjust the bands ????
|
TECH
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2004
20:11:02
| RE: Flushed trans fluid.....and a Q
IP: Logged
Message:
did you adjust the bands ????
*************************************
No, I listened to the same radio station during the whole job.......
|
TECH
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2004
20:13:25
| RE: Flushed trans fluid.....and a Q
IP: Logged
Message:
kj, my manual, 02 Dak 4.7, suggests 30k for severe service, and 100k for normal service. I guess there is something to that. I don't tow a lot, but I wanted the Amsoil in there anyway.
|
TECH
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2004
21:24:23
| RE: Flushed trans fluid.....and a Q
IP: Logged
Message:
.
|
help
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2004
22:08:36
| RE: Flushed trans fluid.....and a Q
IP: Logged
Message:
kj
Chrysler now recommends atf +4 for all vehicles
even those that were supposed to use atf +3. The
+4 is supposed to reduce chatter which is common
in the chrysler trannies.
|
WipLash
R/T
2/21/2004
22:11:00
| RE: Flushed trans fluid.....and a Q
IP: Logged
Message:
Unless you do a lot of hard driving and towing the band adjustment is unecessary. The DC mechanics tend to screw up more than they fix.
When I took my 92 Dak in for it's 36,000 mile service they insisted on doing the bands. I insisted that the thing wasn't broke so don't fix. They twisted my arm long enough that I gave in. 4 hours later they had my truck ready. At the first red light I came to the truck wouldn't down shift. They had something way out of adjustment. The truck ran fine when I went there for the oil change. I had to drive it 50 miles to get home and 2 miles from my house the transmission grenaded. So then I had to pay a wrecker to tow it back to the dealer. They put a new trans in it, but on the day I was supposed to pick the truck up it wouldn't start. A day later they call me and tell me that they had broken the crank sensor in the bell housing. When I finally got my truck back I noticed a clunking noise every time it upshifted. I was working 2 jobs at the time and going to college so I didn't have time to take it back AGAIN! The clunking kept getting worse and worse so I pulled it into my dad's garrage and inspected the installation. DAMN!!! There was only 1 bolt holding the Xmember to the frame and only 2 bolts still holding the transmission to the engine. I tightened the 2 bolts to the engine and drove it 50 miles on the shoulder of the interstate at 35mph back to the dealer. They had to replace the transmission again because the dowl pin holes and bolt holes in the bellhousing were destroyed from them FORGETTING to tighten the damn things. 3 days later they call me and my truck is ready again. On the first upshift the damn thing clunks again. Well, I had already ordered me a 1992 Dakota service manual so I could do my own work from then own. It got to my house a week later. I went over everything they did with a fine tooth comb and discovered they left the 1" spacer out from between the tail housing and the mount on the rear X-member. This was allowing the transfer case (4wd) to bang on the Xmember on every upshift. So, I had to drive back to the dealer again to get them to fix another one of their F@CK-UPS!! Since that day, I have vowed to NEVER take anything to a dealer again! They are idiots. I went in for an oil change and they destroyed not one but 2 transmissions. The new transmission never shifted right. It was very lazy like they had "flashed" the PCM or something. I ended up having to get rid of that truck for a 93.
Moral of the story is if it aint broke don't fix it!
|
CharlesG
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2004
22:20:25
| RE: Flushed trans fluid.....and a Q
IP: Logged
Message:
TECH, Transmissions will have almost a carbon black soot color at 30k miles that develops from clutch disc wear. If it was clean before the flush my guess is that the prior owner flushed it, serviced it, or it was switched out. Amsoil Universal also works great in Daimler Chrysler power steering units! I use it myself in all my veheicles. Good Choice.
|
NOT
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2004
22:58:56
| RE: Flushed trans fluid.....and a Q
IP: Logged
Message:
Charles,
I had a 1970 Charger with a 383 and a 727. I had never flushed the tranny. I did do fluid changes, but if you just undo the pan and let it drain out you only get about half the old fluid out. At 145,000 miles I decide to do a B&M upgrade. I purchased a B&M rebuild kit. I pulled the transmission, dissasembled, upgraded, and rebuilt the transmission myself. There was barely any clutch lining material on the filter. There was NO "BLACK ANYTHING" inside the transmission. It looked like it was good for another 200,000 miles and I drove that car very hard. After the confidence inspiring tear down and rebuild I drove it even harder for another 75,000 miles before I sold it. I serviced the trans 50,000 miles after I did the rebuild (adjusted bands, changed fluid/filter, etc....) and there was NOTHING in the filter or the pan. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
|
kj
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2004
23:52:20
| RE: Flushed trans fluid.....and a Q
IP: Logged
Message:
Thanks for the ATF+4 tip. Is the stuff available in the aftermarket yet? I remember reading Amsoil was good for +3 and 4. I bought my truck brand new and I have never had the tranny flushed. I just change the fluid and filter every 30-35,000 miles and have not encountered any wear dust.
|
DSW
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/22/2004
02:17:11
| RE: Flushed trans fluid.....and a Q
IP: Logged
Message:
I changed my 00 45RFE ATF at 60K with ATF+3, because that's what the owners manual called for, only to learn 2 months later that Dodge changed to ATF+4. Didn't have problems with the ATF+3 and that's probably what was in there to begin with.
At 100K I couldn't find ATF+4 at the auto parts stores so I called Dodge for a price on ATF+4, $6/qt. Forget that, I flushed with Amsoil ATF since it was cheaper and better, only $4.50-5.00/qt buying 5 gallons. Used almost all of it flushing the trans and power steering pump/rack.
$6/qt for hydrocracked dino ATF or $4.50/qt for full synthetic ATF, not a hard decision.
|
Kowalski
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/22/2004
08:09:52
| RE: Flushed trans fluid.....and a Q
IP: Logged
Message:
There's no band adjustment for the 45 RFE - new, stronger planetary gear design that doesn't need bands. My old fluid looked pretty good at 30,000 too, and it gets worked hard - towing and plowing.
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
2/22/2004
10:38:58
|  Amsoil reports DC ATF+4 complaint filed
IP: Logged
Message:
First let me start with this:
FYI (and read between the lines as to how D/C unfairly treats its customers)
The Independent Lubricant Manufacturers Association (ILMA) filed a complaint with the U.S. Federal Trade Commission last week, accusing DaimlerChrysler Corp. of unfair trade practices for the handling of its most up-to-date automatic transmission fluid specification.
ILMA: DaimlerChrysler Unfair to Independents
Reported in "LUBE REPORT"
Industry News from the highly respected Lubes-n-Greases Trade Magazine
Wednesday, November 19, 2003
By Tim Sullivan
The Independent Lubricant Manufacturers Association filed a complaint with the U.S. Federal Trade Commission last week, accusing DaimlerChrysler Corp. of unfair trade practices for the handling of its most up-to-date automatic transmission fluid specification.
The association said the automaker has blocked blenders from making and selling its ATF+4 fluid – which was adopted in 1999 and is now recommended for most Chrysler vehicles. In addition it accused the company of leveraging its monopoly on the transmission fluid to muscle motor oil sales away from lubricant companies.
“To Chrysler, this probably is another revenue stream for a product code,” Executive Director Celeste Powers said. “However, to ILMA members this is unfair competition which hurts motorists.”
Chrysler first advised dealers in October 1999 that it had begun factory filling certain vehicles with ATF+4 and that they should service those vehicles with the same fluid, instead of the previous fluid, ATF+3. Two years later, the company advised that ATF+4 should be used in all vehicles with automatic transmissions except minivans built before 2000.
The association’s complaint said that Lubrizol is the exclusive manufacturer of chemistry for ATF+4 and that DaimlerChrysler has contracted Petro-Canada and ChevronTexaco to supply the fluid. The complaint said ILMA members that marketed earlier versions of the fluid requested the ATF+4 formula from DaimlerChrysler but were turned down. Members also contacted Lubrizol, ChevronTexaco and Petro-Canada but were told that those companies’ contracts with the automaker prohibited them from sharing the formula or reselling the fluid.
According to the complaint, such practices violate provisions of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which prohibits automakers from conditioning warranties on the use of named oils or parts unless the automaker provides them for free or demonstrates that available alternatives will not function adequately.
The association noted that other automakers avoid the problem by licensing products that meet their specifications. ILMA officials said DaimlerChrysler has made formulas and specifications for previous fluids available to blenders.
The association said it urged DaimlerChrysler a year ago to establish a licensing program for ATF+4 and has tried several times since then to engage the company in discussions. ILMA legal counsel Jeffrey L. Leiter said the association has received no response.
“We tried to work this out with them but they’ve ignored us at every step of the way,” he said.
DaimlerChrysler did not return phone calls seeking comment.
The complaint said DaimlerChrysler “has taken its anticompetitive actions… one step further ”by allowing dealers to buy bulk volumes of ATF+4 only in combination with bulk purchases of their own Mopar brand motor oil. Dealers that decline the offer incur greater costs to buy the transmission fluid in smaller volumes.
ILMA’s complaint asked the trade commission to investigate its allegations and to compel DaimlerChrysler to cease its practices. Officials acknowledged that the case does not involve a large amount of ATF+4, but said they are concerned about the possibility of other automakers imitating DaimlerChrysler’s actions.
“If Chrysler can get away with this, it will embolden other original equipment manufacturers, so ILMA had to take a stand,” Powers commented.
--------------------------------------------------
My Opinion: That is why ATF+4 is expensive and also why D/C Dealers push the Mopar brand of oil ... to obtain the bulk discount prices on the ATF+4.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
2/22/2004
10:51:01
|  Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF is #1
IP: Logged
Message:
Why all the different DC ATF Formulations
ATF+4 is the latest version of Dodge/Chrysler ATF. Dodge realized that their transmissions were weak (as per my cousin and bro-in-law that own Dodge Dealerships) and they had to reformulate their ATF many times so that the transmissions worked properly.
Chrysler went from ATF+ (MS 7176B) to ATF+4 in less than ten years. Essentially they were trying to make up for shifting problems in some of their transmissions by "tweaking" the frictional properties of their fluid rather than recalling the affected units. The ATF+4 fluid does seem to have solved the problems with some of the transmissions from the mid 1990's.
My cousin owns a Dodge Dealershsip also owns a NAPA store and carries (and recommends) Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants (including Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF) to his clients. His Amsoil display is one of the largest displays on his floor --- ... and he has recommended Amsoil ATF to dozens of Dakota owners.
Amsoil Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid.
Recommended for applications requiring the following specifications:
Chrysler ATF+, ATF+2, ATF+3, ATF+4
__________________________________________________
I know many Dodge owners that have noticeable and significant improvements switching to Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF. They state that the transmission characteristics are better than when it was new.
Amsoil did offer a Synthetic ATF specifically for ATF +3/+4 applications about 3-4 years ago. However once they were able to integrate this additive chemistry into their Dexron/Mercon formulation, they discontinued making this second fluid.
__________________________________________________
We all know ... that transmissions from different manufacturers use various types of clutch pack materials. So ... is it possible to formulate a single fluid that will behave differently in GM, Ford and Chrysler transmissions? The specifications for friction characteristics are for how the fluid behaves in the particular application, given the types of materials used in that transmission. They are not the stand alone properties of the fluid.
__________________________________________________
__________________________________________________
Interested In Requesting a FREE Amsoil Catalog click the following link.
Thank You,
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
2/22/2004
10:54:33
| RE: Flushed trans fluid.....and a Q
IP: Logged
Message:
Since 1999, due to the special requirements of their automatic transmissions, Chrysler has recommended a unique ATF+4 formulation. In addition, Chrysler has been recommending ATF+4 for all previous makes and models of Chrysler Corporation vehicles.
The new AMSOIL Synthetic Universal ATF exceeds the performance specifications for Chrysler ATF+, +2, +3, and +4 as well as MS-7176 A, B, C, D, & E; MS-9602 A, B, & C, as well as Ford Mercon or General Motors Dexron III applications. AMSOIL Synthetic ATF is available in quarts, quart cases, twin packs, 30-gallon and 55-gallon drums. I will post the prices in a moment.
__________________________________________________
AMSOIL Synthetic Universal ATF is far superior to any group II base oil blended with hydro treated naphthenic oil. We use a premium additive chemistry that meets the static and dynamic coefficient of friction parameters to meet (and exceed) ATF+4 requirements. It also meets the coefficients of friction parameters for MERCON, MERCON V, DEXRON III, and Diamond SPIII.
All AMSOIL lubricants are designed to improve performance and increase protection to engine and transmission components. Chrysler developed the "+4" spec to "fix" an inherent chattering problem with the Chrysler transmissions. There are fluids that are far superior to Chryslers "+4" specs, including ours!
We didn’t just one day decide to make this claim just for the heck of it. This was very carefully researched and we have been developing superior fluids for over 30 years.
__________  __________
__________________________________________________
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
2/22/2004
11:04:14
| Amsoil Synthetic ATF vs. Petroleum ATF
IP: Logged
Message:
How does Amsoil ATF compare to Chrysler recommended ATF+4?"
AMSOIL Synthetic Universal ATF
Recommended for applications requiring the following specifications:
Chrysler ATF+, ATF+2, ATF+3, ATF+4
-------------------------------------------------
AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid is a universal ATF designed to "EXCEED" nearly all foreign and domestic performance requirements. It improves fuel efficiency, reduces transmission temperatures by 20 to 50 degrees F and increases transmission life. Provides unsurpassed thermal stability and at least "3 TIMES THE LIFE" of conventional ATFs. Delivers maximum protection for towing and other severe-duty applications. Formulated with synthetic basestocks and the "TOP_OF_THE_LINE" additive package, AMSOIL ATF provides top performance, durability & efficiency.
Key Benefits to You:
Cleaner transmission components, More efficient power transfer, Lower Transmission temperatures, Dramatically less transmission wear, Smoother cold temperature operation, Long drain intervals. Compatible Applications: Nearly all passenger cars (foreign & domestic), Nearly all light duty trucks (including Dodge Dakotas).
I do not have a direct comparison between ATF+4 and Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF, but I do have the following graphs and a response direct from Amsoil Headquarters.
__________________________________________________
Don't be distracted by the "Universal" one size fits all language on our Amsil Synthetic Universal ATF Bottles, or in our literature. Pennzoil & Quaker State also offer their own Multi-Vehicle ATF.
__________________________________________________
Many people have asked the same question ... I forwarded the question to Amsoil in the past. Here was their response ... AND I LIKE IT:
"The AMSOIL ATF is far superior to an ATF blended with hydro treated naphthenic oil. Secondly it uses a premium additive chemistry that meets the static and dynamic coefficient of friction parameters to meet ATF+4 requirements. It also meets the coefficients of friction parameters for MERCON, MERCON V, DEXRON III, and Diamond SPIII.
Although the additive chemistry may be slightly different the exclusive MOPAR fluid from the factory, it still follows suit with the parameters set forth by Daimler Chrysler. All AMSOIL lubricants are designed to improve performance and increase protection to engine and transmission components."
"Further more, Chrysler developed the +4 spec to "fix" an inherent chattering problem with the Chrysler transmissions. That is the sole reason why Chrysler recommends +4 fluid and this is why nobody offers a +4 fluid. On the other hand there are fluids that are far superior to Chryslers +4 specs, including ours!"
__________________________________________________
You can request a FREE AMSOIL CATALOG by clicking the link below:
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
2/22/2004
11:09:38
| Amsoil Synthetic ATF Recommended Change Interval
IP: Logged
Message:
Another question asked often:
"What is recommended change interval of Amsoil ATF? ... and has anyone out there used the synthetic atf in their dakota --- if so what is your opinion."
__________________________________________________
Amsoil ATF Extended Drain Intervals
AMSOIL ATF is formulated for extended drain intervals. Transmissions usually operate under severe service conditions. They are subjected to extensive idling, frequent short trips, cold temperature driving, sustained hot weather driving or trailer towing. When conventional transmission fluid is used, it should be changed every 15,000 to 30,000 miles. AMSOIL ATF should be changed at intervals up to three times longer than the recommendations of the vehicle manufacturer.
SERVICE LIFE
AMSOIL ATF has an expected fluid life of three times the automatic transmission manufacturer's recommendations. Drain intervals may be extended indefinitely when fluid analysis is used.
__________________________________________________
I am going to quote a Member of this website, BigBlue QC. (He won't mind ... I have exchanged emails with him on a few occassions).
BigBlue QC states:
"I have had perfect luck with AMSOIL ATF in my trans, it has been in the truck for 60000 miles, tested twice, with perfect results each time. Good luck. 14 quarts for a complete flush, another 1-1/2 quarts if you have a 4x4 for the transfer case, which you have to drain and re-fill. You will need a pump for the transfer case to re-fill. If you bought whatever you decide locally why can't you return whatever you don't open??? Having an extra 2 quarts on hand while doing this is not a bad thing as a just in case."
" ... the 14 quarts is with the tranny cooler as I have one also." "... it has been over a year since I changed the transfer case to AMSOIL ATF. I remember filling to the hole level and then buttoning it up. Haven't had any problems with it. I am a preferred customer for AMSOIL (I pay the $20/year to get the wholesale pricing) and I remember it is cheaper to get the bigger jugs of fluid, like 2-1/2 gallons, when you need larger quantities. 2-1/2 gallons is 10 quarts, if you got two of them it should be enough for the trans, transfer case, and power steering. Yes, I have changed the power steering fluid in my truck to AMSOIL ATF also(my year uses ATF+4 as the ps fluid) with no regrets."
__________________________________________________
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
2/22/2004
11:13:04
| RE: Flushed trans fluid.....and a Q
IP: Logged
Message:
Everyone Respects Larry of J&J Auto ... correct?
Here is Larry's quote from another thread (hope you don't mind Larry!)
Larry of J&J Auto stated:
"Amsoil Universal Trans fluid or the chrysler ATF+4 are the only fluids we use in these trans at the shop.
I have been running it (Amsoil) in my trans for about 30,000 miles now, made the trans shift smother and run almost 30 degrees cooler. I also run it in my transfer case.
I run all Amsoil even the rear ends and grease it with the syn fortified with molly. Yes I have a trans temp guage in my truck also a nordask Air/Fuel meter on its own o2 so I can monitor my stroker very closely
The Amsoil runs very good in these transmissions."
Larry
J&J Auto
__________________________________________________
Thanks Larry!
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
2/22/2004
11:22:26
| Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF -- Retail Pricing
IP: Logged
Message:
Sorry for all the many posts! I had lots to say and broke it up so that it was not too long. I tried to break it into particular categories: DC ATF+4 complaint filed, Why all the different DC ATF Formulations, Amsoil ATF compared to Petroleum and to Chrysler recommended ATF+4, Recommended change intervals, and testimonials.
Here is my last post ... (please hold your applause)
Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF --- Retail Pricing
(preferred customers receive discounted pricing of approximately 20%)
Product Codes - Quantity/Size - Retail Pricing
ATF-QT - (1) quart bottle ------------ $7.80
ATF-01 - (12) quart bottles --------- $92.40
ATF-TP - (1) 2 1/2-gallon bottle ---- $74.25
ATF-05 - (2) 2 1/2-gallon bottles - $146.50
ATF-30 - (1) 30-gallon drum ------- $689.00
ATF-55 - (1) 55-gallon drum ----- $1,181.00
__________________________________________________
_______________  _______________
__________________________________________________
Request a FREE AMSOIL CATALOG by clicking the following link:
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
WipLash
R/T
2/22/2004
11:54:47
| RE: Flushed trans fluid.....and a Q
IP: Logged
Message:
AmsoilSponsor,
I appreciate the information there, but in defense of DC, I dissagree with the transmisions being weak. My Company owns a fleet of Chevrolets and every one of them has had a new transmission put in them except the one 5spd and it has had 3 master cylinders replaced in the clutch. The one Vortec 350 truck we purchased had the transmission replaced in 5,000 miles. Our trucks see 99% interstate miles. A friend of mine bought a RC SWB Silverado with the Vortec 350 and he replaced 3 transmissions in 15,000 miles. I agree Dodge's transmissions could be better, but why should they go throught the expense of making a bullet proof trans? They did that through the 60's, 70's, and 80's with the 727 and look what it got them...BANKRUPCY! You know the old saying... If you can't beat them, join them. That's all Dodge has done in the last 10 years is join the ranks of the rest of the automitive world.
|
| | P 1 Next Page>> |
|
