93 Dak Tranny Issues

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GP
Dodge Dakota
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1/30/2004
20:19:00

Subject: 93 Dak Tranny Issues
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I have a 93 Dakota 4x4 Auto Over drive trans and a strong 5.2 Magnum. Truck has 305,000 miles on it. Truck is in awesome shape and I rebuilt the motor this past summer. I'm not sure when the tranny was last serviced. Recently I started to lose power while trying to pass (kickdown). Eventually it got so bad that I couldn't push 1500 rpms (in drive and moving) before the truck would just "cut off" and slowly revive itself only to repeat. It does it hot or cold. In park I can rev to about 2000-2500 rpms before cutting out. In drive it cuts out at about 1500, sometimes higher, and it never kicks down. I can't get over 40mph even after 5 minutes on a level road.

Because this "cut off" happens while in park, I have been reluctant to assume it is the tranny. But after doing all checks on the motor (engine codes, spark, fuel, compression, exhaust) I have begun to move to the tranny.

Now looking back to to when this occured. It was shortly after having to drive in 2 feet of snow up to my house. I live in the mountains of Maine. Bear mountain to be exact. UC...The guy who pavs the roads up here, his name is BIM, he is a lazy fat bastard who likes to do kereoki down the the local bar. (Hi BIM.. How 'bout them Patriots...)My road gets plowed within 24 hrs of storms end. So anyways I had worked the truck pretty hard trying to get up the hill. I actually "plowed" the snow about 20 to 50 ft and then back up and "plow" again. Just a note here... I don't have a plow!

Now to explain the things I did today. I checked the throttle Valve cable. It is in sad shape. It has been rubbing on the front wheel drive shaft to the point where you can see the cable in the cable conduit But still moves in sync with the throttle plates. Not to mention that it is so cold here in Maine that I broke the connector (on the cable) at the throttle body. Ordered a new one at the Dodge dealer for $83. Should be here Monday.

So when I got back home from the dealer I took the vehicle speed sensor apart. I thought I was supposed to lose about a qt of tranny fluid upon removal? well It was bone dry. I went back to the engine compartment to check the tranny level. The truck was cold and had not been run all day so I know the tranny fluid would not be accurate, however it was about 3-4 inches above the "max fill" mark. Which I believe is about right (maybe a little on the high side) when the tranny is cold.

So it appears to me that there is a pressure diff in the tranny. More fluid aft than stern if ya follow me. Maybe plugged up? Govenor solenoid? ect...

I would classify myself as a competent mechanic when it comes to motors, driveline, suspensions, electronics, and basic engineering. When it comes to trannys, I've put 'em in, taken 'em out, and changed the fluid/filter. That's all.

I have bought a new filter/fluid today and plan on changing it asap to see if it will make a difference.

Now here's where you experienced people can help me out. While I am servicing the tranny, is there a few things I can do while the pan is off Besides band adjustment)? I mean as far as pulling the module and solenoids out? Maybe clean them up? As I said earlier I am an experienced mechanic and am comfortable doing some exploratory surgery on my baby. I only have the Haynes book which we all now is a great book but very limited on tranny info and troubleshooting charts. I have been told that since I am unsure when my tranny was last serviced, and that the truck has extreme high miles that I should not get a tranny flush done because there may be significant deposits that may get left behind only to clog the solenoid ports.

So If a few of you could give me some valuable info I would be very much in your debt.

GP

PS The only code I am getting is a 51 Oxygen sensor reading lean most of the time. Remember that my problem happens in both open and closed loop runs.

gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/30/2004
20:52:23

RE: 93 Dak Tranny Issues
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Did you happen to replace the belly pan gasket in the intake when you rebuilt the engine? The vacuum leak cause by the failure of this gasket will cause a run-lean condition.
How's the mileage been? Running rough at all leading up to, and during the current problem?

GP
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2004
00:27:40

RE: 93 Dak Tranny Issues
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Wazzup

Man I was hoping to avoid explaining a week of troubleshooting the motor. But I understand that it is hard for anyone to assume what I have done. I don't want anything left out! I just didn't want to write a Stephen King novel if you know what I mean...

yes I did replace the belly pan gasket under the keg this past summer. The gasket was included in the overhaul kit. I have checked for suction at pcv valve and breather inlet. I have no suction, only blow by gas pressure. Removed throttle body to clean throat and isc motor(eventually bought new isc and tsp(tested map)) and looked inside. There is a very little brown haze on the pan floor. I can still see the grain of the steel. My oil pressure needle reads at 90% and I don't add any oil between oil changes. Don't have to.

Lemme try and make this short. I may forget a few things. The wife says I have alzheimers. I think that's what they call it. I don't remember...

anywayze.....................................

[Tune-up]

New Fuel Filter.
Oil/filter change.
New Air Filter.
New PCV Valve.
8 new AC Delco Plugs gapped to spec .035.
New Borg Warner Ignition Coil.
New Borg Warner Distributer cap and rotor.
New box cheapo $25 7mm wires.
New EGR and Back pressure Transducer.

[Visual]

Looked over engine for anything out of the ordinary such as broken/cracked/disco'd hoses, lines, unions, and wires. Passed visual.

[stethescope]

listened around TB, intake, and along hoses and their connections for air leaks. Also sprayed water mist around hose connections. No leaks found.

Listened to the lifters, and injectors. All appeared working.

[Fuel]

Visual inspection ok. No bent or broken lines/fittings. They are starting to rust. Will need replacing soon. No fuel odor detected.

Replaced fuel filter. Old filter was hard to blow thru.

Pressure test with key on with engine not running 39. AT idle 31. With pressure regulator vaccum line removed 39. Pressure does drop some while reving engine. Tested ok to Haynes manual specs but I'm unsure how much fuel pressure is supposed to drop at rpm intervals. I thought it was to remain steady even under accel. But I'm not sure. No mention of this in Haynes or on this site.

Eventually removed injectors and replaced o-rings.
Injectors were ok. No heavy deposits/obstructions on the ports. Cleaned them with carb cleaner and heavy toothbrush. No reason to suspect injectors.

[Spark]

Engine starts and idles ok cold or hot. Once warmed up it sometimes idles like it gets to much gas. Happens 5% of time. I assume this may be due to the PCM trying to compensate a lean condition which is created by a random misfire from the primary ignition circuit. I have always had this random misfire since I owned the truck. I have confirmed it in the secondary circuit by using a timing light on all wires. Each cylinder will misfire once every 20-30 cycles(Educated Guess). I'm guessing the PCM is in need of a PCM flash. Or at worst needs to be replaced.

Distributer was checked for play by moving the rotor button back and forth and side to side. There is less than 1/8 in of play left to right, and much less than that side to side. Pump gear and intermediate shaft all intacked and no signs of premature wear or chips. Pulse ring attatched to base of distributer body is firm. Unable to move it from rivets. Inductor coil was cleaned and oxides removed. I did try a resistance measure on the inductor coil. Haynes manual is slack on this info as well. The pigtail has three conductors. I get a few hundred or so ohms on the left two, and no continuity between the left to right and middle to right conductors. If anyone could shed some light on these readings I would much appreciate it.

Now this message/post is getting so long I can't see without scrolling up and down to see what I've written. hehe

(compression]

All cylinders 150-160 psi. I have no reason to believe bad rings(leak down test) or valve/valve guides(Blue smoke first few minutes after cold engine start).

[Emissions]

EGR was replaced 3 months ago at $90 (advance auto)
However, I removed and cleaned egr, pintle(valve itself), egr port on intake, and egr tube. Egr was in good shape. Ports had 1/64th carbon lining build up but some is to be expected. No blockages and egr pintle moves freely while squeezing the diaphram. Everything looks normal.

Inspected evap canister and hoses: looked fine.

I know I have a week O2 sensor as my gas milage is pretty bad. ABout 11 mpg's. However my problem exists in open loop mode, so I don't suspect O2 sensor problems beyond bad gas milage.

[Exhaust]

Removed exhaust from header pipe. Problem not fixed with open exhaust. No restrictions.

[misc]

Removed rocker covers to inspect movement of lifters and valves. Everything normal.

Swaped around Power Distribution Relays. Thinking I might have a bad auto shutdown relay.

Remove Power Distribution box and checked harness below it for green oxidized copper wires that might be coroded. Three red wires with white pinstripe connected to one was perfectly clean and no corosion at all. However there were four thin black wires with yellow pinstripe that were dust! Unsure what these are for but I did repair them. Anyone have a clue? I haven't yet located them in Haynes manual.

Well I'm sorry for the Stephen King novel but it was deamed necessary. I hope I didn't scare anyone! lol to funny... I know I have left out some stuff, but as I said earlier, if I didn't write something down don't assume that I did it. Write down your thoughts!

I'm still waiting for some help for the proper proceedure on removing the tranny module to check the solenoids and what not. I'm servicing the filter tomorrow. Basically I want to know what I can check without taking the tranny out. I'm almost 100% positive that my problem is tranny related.

Thanks for your patience everyone..

GP

gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2004
01:38:17

RE: 93 Dak Tranny Issues
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Regarding the tranny. The thing is, the solenoids you have in a '93 are only related to torque converter lockup/unlock and engaging overdrive. It wasn't til '96 that the trannys were adapted to electronic valvebody controls/solenoids. I'd start with the torque converter, then look at the tranny. However, with the mileage on yours, you really need both to be reworked.

GP
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2004
05:46:40

RE: 93 Dak Tranny Issues
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Thanks gen1dak for your thoughts. I very much appreciate it.

First off, isn't the torque converter in the bell housing attatched to the flywheel? I don't plan on taking the tranny out just yet. I will this summer. That would be a big project to do out here in the cold. How much of a task is it to remove the solenoid module? I heard there are 4 bolts holding it in there. Is this correct? If I remove this what would I be looking for and where would it be.

I know it would be so much easier to have the manual. I could learn about the entire tranny in a matter of hours instead of driving blind. Do you know of any free online engineering literature that describes the operating priciples for my tranny. How the thing works, or any good "how-to" or reference articles that go beyond basic tranny service?

I need so many answers to things like Throttle body pressure , shift points, solenoid setup/inspection, and fluid dynamics. I'm stuck on the notion that it's maybe a hydrolic failure like an obstruction? The truck will still shift but it takes a while to get fast enough. But there is no kickdown when stepping on the gas in any gear.

So am I to understand that there are no sensors in my 93 that affect timing/fuel mix? only a govenor valve? How is the rev limiter engaged? Output Speed Sensor?

Just so you know. My tranny fluid is still red, but it has a very slight burnt appearance and smell. I've seen bad oil and this is not that bad. But surely not good either.

You know what? I'm not even sure which tranny I have in my truck. I just started poking around with it. I'm guessing the A500 which is like a A998 with overdrive.

All I can say about my tranny is that it was shifting and running excellent before I ran it in 2 feet of snow. It then went south within 2 weeks. Could this all be as simple as the TV cable being out of wack? I have heard that a small distance makes a huge impact on shift points and other things. Is the throttle body pressure regulated by one solenoid on my tranny?

Man I know I'm rambling and I'm grabbing for thin air here, so I think it's time for a little break. I really wish I could afford the DC manual.

I'll be back...
GP

gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2004
01:35:01

RE: 93 Dak Tranny Issues
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Okay, regarding sensors. Yes, you have the usual sensors for controlling the air/fuel ratio. My reference was to the transmission. You only have the overdrive solenoid and the torque converter lockup solenoid. Their sole purpose is to be energized when the computer says so, and then the matching part will engage or disengage. The '96 and up trannys have the electronic valvebodies that have multiple solenoids for all tranny functions. So what I'm getting at is even if you replace the only two solenoids you have, it will not fix your problem. When you went through the snow, you put a much higher load on the tranny, and with the mileage it has, some well-worn part failed due to the higher temperature caused by the strain in the snow. Your problem is internal. Either the converter is shot, and I guarantee you it got HOT in that snow, or you fried the bands and clutches. Either way, you can't fix it without pulling it out. I suppose you could have a resticted passage from clutch material, which a good flush would answer. It is also possible that the valve body is clogged. If you feel the need to remove it, I'm not sure, but it looks more like 9 bolts holding it in....an admittedly quick glance and count. You may want to service it with the fluid/filter, and most certainly a band adjustment. I think your number is up on this one. You got a great life out of it. Now, I don't know of any free resources, but the best $40 I've spen was on the video and booklet from the ATSG. The video is so good you'll wanna do the rebuild yourself. You can look it up online or call 1-800-245-7722.
The problems you desribe could be any of the tranny parts, from valve body, to bands, to clutched......Also, the 1993 FSM states that you should have the 46RH tranny, which is the A518. That's a key reason it lasted so long. Oh, and the solenoid bracket that's bolted to the valve body is held by 3 bolts.
On the rev limiter, that's a PCM-controlled deal which is determined by the engine speed sensor.
The TV cable could be an issue, but unless it was really whacked, it should still shift out, if not as before. Also, upon adjustment, it should return to normal operation.

GP
Dodge Dakota
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6/16/2004
22:59:34

RE: 93 Dak Tranny Issues
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Well here is a late late late update on what the problem was. It actually made sense too.. When you read my earlier posts I mention that I couldn't locate a reference on what the fuel pressure should do under accel. For me..It was dropping under accel. So I broke down and removed/checked the fuel pump. The screen on the bottom was partially clogged with debree. Looked like a couple pine needles. It would allow me to start the truck but upon accel it would die. I just cleaned the screen and Voila! Extreme power like never before....

A big Thanks to Dodgedakotas.com and members like gen1dak! You have all been very helpful.

I hope this helps someone out.

GP

Bob.C
Dodge Dakota
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6/17/2004
17:09:45

RE: 93 Dak Tranny Issues
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You know like they say if its not broke then don't fix it.

P 1

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