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12:55:51 - 04/24/2024
General Dakota Board
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
 
11/19/2003
10:49:40
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 Subject: Amsoil Reports ATF+4 Complaint Filed
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FYI (and read between the lines as to how D/C unfairly treats its customers)
The Independent Lubricant Manufacturers Association (ILMA) filed a complaint with the U.S. Federal Trade Commission last week, accusing DaimlerChrysler Corp. of unfair trade practices for the handling of its most up-to-date automatic transmission fluid specification.
ILMA: DaimlerChrysler Unfair to Independents
Reported in "LUBE REPORT"
Industry News from the highly respected Lubes-n-Greases Trade Magazine
Wednesday, November 19, 2003
By Tim Sullivan
The Independent Lubricant Manufacturers Association filed a complaint with the U.S. Federal Trade Commission last week, accusing DaimlerChrysler Corp. of unfair trade practices for the handling of its most up-to-date automatic transmission fluid specification.
The association said the automaker has blocked blenders from making and selling its ATF+4 fluid – which was adopted in 1999 and is now recommended for most Chrysler vehicles. In addition it accused the company of leveraging its monopoly on the transmission fluid to muscle motor oil sales away from lubricant companies.
“To Chrysler, this probably is another revenue stream for a product code,” Executive Director Celeste Powers said. “However, to ILMA members this is unfair competition which hurts motorists.”
Chrysler first advised dealers in October 1999 that it had begun factory filling certain vehicles with ATF+4 and that they should service those vehicles with the same fluid, instead of the previous fluid, ATF+3. Two years later, the company advised that ATF+4 should be used in all vehicles with automatic transmissions except minivans built before 2000.
The association’s complaint said that Lubrizol is the exclusive manufacturer of chemistry for ATF+4 and that DaimlerChrysler has contracted Petro-Canada and ChevronTexaco to supply the fluid. The complaint said ILMA members that marketed earlier versions of the fluid requested the ATF+4 formula from DaimlerChrysler but were turned down. Members also contacted Lubrizol, ChevronTexaco and Petro-Canada but were told that those companies’ contracts with the automaker prohibited them from sharing the formula or reselling the fluid.
According to the complaint, such practices violate provisions of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which prohibits automakers from conditioning warranties on the use of named oils or parts unless the automaker provides them for free or demonstrates that available alternatives will not function adequately.
The association noted that other automakers avoid the problem by licensing products that meet their specifications. ILMA officials said DaimlerChrysler has made formulas and specifications for previous fluids available to blenders.
The association said it urged DaimlerChrysler a year ago to establish a licensing program for ATF+4 and has tried several times since then to engage the company in discussions. ILMA legal counsel Jeffrey L. Leiter said the association has received no response.
“We tried to work this out with them but they’ve ignored us at every step of the way,” he said.
DaimlerChrysler did not return phone calls seeking comment.
The complaint said DaimlerChrysler “has taken its anticompetitive actions… one step further ”by allowing dealers to buy bulk volumes of ATF+4 only in combination with bulk purchases of their own Mopar brand motor oil. Dealers that decline the offer incur greater costs to buy the transmission fluid in smaller volumes.
ILMA’s complaint asked the trade commission to investigate its allegations and to compel DaimlerChrysler to cease its practices. Officials acknowledged that the case does not involve a large amount of ATF+4, but said they are concerned about the possibility of other automakers imitating DaimlerChrysler’s actions.
“If Chrysler can get away with this, it will embolden other original equipment manufacturers, so ILMA had to take a stand,” Powers commented.
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My Opinion: That is why ATF+4 is expensive and also why D/C Dealers push the Mopar brand of oil ... to obtain the bulk discount prices on the ATF+4.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Doug4.7
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/19/2003
12:57:30
|  RE: Amsoil Reports ATF+4 Complaint Filed
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I hope they get somewhere with the complaint. Unfortunately, all DC has to do is... nothing, for a long time and they will still make the bucks. Don't you love greed...
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kj
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2003
19:48:21
|  RE: Amsoil Reports ATF+4 Complaint Filed
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Thanks for the info. I've been using Pennzoil ATF+3 in my 2000 4.7 and have been wondering about this topic.
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Dr. D
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2003
20:02:51
|  RE: Amsoil Reports ATF+4 Complaint Filed
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All of this info makes you wonder if Daimler Chrysler doesn't own the ball joint manufacturers too !
Thanks for the info Steven !
Dr. D
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booboo
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/20/2003
08:18:52
| RE: Amsoil Reports ATF+4 Complaint Filed
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I hope the ILMA wins this one. This may put an end to these Dealer Specific fluids that can't be duplicated or cross referenced. In my opinion, it's restriction of trade and goes against historical practices in the industry and in this country. Except for Microsoft that is.
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BDak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/20/2003
09:05:17
| RE: Amsoil Reports ATF+4 Complaint Filed
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So if you don't use the ATF-4 and your tranny has problems is your warranty void? Becasue I know independent manufactureers could easily do chemical analysis and break down the composition of matter and formulate to meet or exceed the specific properties of the DC fluid.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/20/2003
09:54:02
|  Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF & ATF+4
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For the Record (and to clear the air):
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Chrysler went from ATF+ (MS 7176B) to ATF+4 in less than ten years. Essentially they were trying to make up for shifting problems in some of their transmissions by "tweaking" the frictional properties of their fluid rather than recalling the affected units. The ATF+4 fluid does seem to have solved the problems with some of the transmissions from the mid 1990's.
However, I know many Dodge owners that have noticeable and significant improvements switching to Amsoil Universal Synthetic ATF. They state that the transmission characteristics are better than when it was new. Yes we all know ... transmissions from different manufacturers use various types of clutch pack materials. So ... is it possible to formulate a single fluid that will behave differently in GM, Ford and Chrysler transmissions? The specifications for friction characteristics are for how the fluid behaves in the particular application, given the types of materials used in that transmission. They are not the stand alone properties of the fluid, which is where I think the misunderstanding comes in.
Amsoil Universal Synthetic ATF is truely "Universal"
REPEAT: Amsoil did offer a Synthetic ATF specifically for ATF +3/+4 applications about 3-4 years ago. However once they were able to integrate this additive chemistry into their Dexron/Mercon formulation, they discontinued making this second fluid.
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My cousin that owns a Dodge Dealershsip also owns a NAPA store and carries (and recommends) Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants to his clients. His Amsoil display is one of the largest displays on his floor --- and he has recommended Amsoil ATF to dozens of Dakota owners.
Amsoil Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid. Recommended for applications requiring the following specifications:
Chrysler ATF+, ATF+2, ATF+3, ATF+4
__________________________________________________
AMSOIL Synthetic Universal ATF is far superior to any group II base oil blended with hydro treated naphthenic oil. We use a premium additive chemistry that meets the static and dynamic coefficient of friction parameters to meet (and exceed) ATF+4 requirements. It also meets the coefficients of friction parameters for MERCON, MERCON V, DEXRON III, and Diamond SPIII.
All AMSOIL lubricants are designed to improve performance and increase protection to engine and transmission components. Repeat, ... Chrysler developed the "+4" spec to "fix" an inherent chattering problem with the Chrysler transmissions. There are fluids that are far superior to Chryslers "+4" specs, including ours!
We didn’t just one day decide to make this claim just for the heck of it. This was very carefully researched and we have been developing superior fluids for over 30 years.
_______________  _______________
__________________________________________________
AMSOIL Synthetic Universal ATF
Recommended for applications requiring the following specifications:
Chrysler ATF+, ATF+2, ATF+3, ATF+4
AMSOIL synthetic automatic transmission fluid is a universal ATF designed to exceed nearly all foreign and domestic performance requirements. It improves fuel efficiency, reduces transmission temperatures by 20 to 50 degrees F and increases transmission life. Provides unsurpassed thermal stability and at least 3 times the life of conventional ATFs. Delivers maximum protection for towing and other severe-duty applications. Formulated with synthetic basestocks and the top-of-the-line additive package, AMSOIL ATF provides top performance, durability & efficiency.
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Key Benefits to You:
Cleaner transmission components, More efficient power transfer, Lower Transmission temperatures, Dramatically less transmission wear, Smoother cold temperature operation, Long drain intervals, Compatible Applications: Nearly all passenger cars (foreign & domestic), Nearly all light duty trucks (including Dodge Dakotas).
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There a number of folks who run Amsoil Universal Synthetic ATF --- in Dakota's (Member - BigBlue QC for one), in Dodge diesel pickups, in "LH" sedans like the Concorde and Dodge minivans, etc. It works just fine.
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Amsoil is NOT the only company offering multi-vehicle ATF. I simply believe that ours is better.
__________________________________________________
To Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog click the following link.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Doug4.7
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/20/2003
10:40:11
|  RE: Amsoil Reports ATF+4 Complaint Filed
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Message:
The only thing I see against the Amsoil ATF is you might have troubles getting warranty service if there is a problem. Yes, I understand the Amsoil ATF is perfectly fine, but at many DC dealers you end up having to "prove" that the Amsoil ATF did NOT cause the problem. They use the "guilty until proven innocent" method. Yes it is wrong, but they have more lawyers than I do.
Oh yea, just for the laugh, you would not believe what my MS spell checker suggested for Amsoil. Hint: it was a rather common word describing a part of the body involved in food processing. Maybe Microsoft has it in for Amsoil also...
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/20/2003
12:09:12
| Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF & Warranty
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WARRANTY
First and foremost, there is no way for the dealer to test to see what brand of lubricant you are using, they will only want to see maintenance records to see that maintenance was performed on a timely basis. If this is a concern, this can be accomplished by keeping sales receipts of your purchases and taking photos of your odometer.
Warranty issues can be a pain in the butt even if the dealer has performed all maintenance with OEM supplies. For the record, I am posting Amsoil's recently revised Limited Warranty information in it's entirety below.
(Note: I purchase and use Amsoil lubricants and filters EXCLUSIVELY and take the products to a local "Quickie Lube" and let them perform the change. They charge a "nominal fee" for this service since I provide the lubricants and filters --- similar to a corking fee when you bring your own bottle "BYOB" of wine, or your own beer, to a restaurant.)
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Recently Revised AMSOIL Limited Warranty - Lubricants
AMSOIL INC. of Superior, Wisconsin hereby warrants that its lubricants are fit for use according to the written recommendations of AMSOIL INC. and in applications specifying one or more of the standards set forth in the product data bulletins and product labels. AMSOIL INC. further warrants its products to be free of defective materials, design, and workmanship.
THIS WARRANTY IS SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOWING LIMITATIONS:
1. This warranty only applies to AMSOIL lubricants for which a separate, specific warranty is not written.
2. The warranty herein applies only to AMSOIL lubricants, which are packaged by AMSOIL INC. and sold by AMSOIL INC. or an authorized distributor.
3. The liability of AMSOIL INC. shall be limited to:
a. Replacement of the defective lubricant.
b. The cost, including labor and materials, to repair damaged equipment, or at the option of AMSOIL INC., the cost to replace damaged equipment, resulting directly from the use of AMSOIL INC. lubricants when used in the proper applications.
4. AMSOIL INC. shall not be liable for special, incidental, or consequential damages including, but not limited to, damage or loss of other property or equipment, loss of profits or revenue, cost of capital, business interruption, lodging, towing, or cost of replacement equipment. The liability of AMSOIL INC. arising out of the manufacture, sale, delivery, installation, technical directions or recommendation of any lubricant- whether in contract, tort, warranty or otherwise - shall not exceed the value of the equipment in which the product(s) were used. The remedies to the purchaser herein are exclusive.
5. In the event of a claim against AMSOIL INC., the procedure below must be completely followed.
a. Where the original warranty from the equipment manufacturer is still in effect, the customer shall file a warranty claim with the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) in accordance with the OEM warranty procedure.
b. Customer shall retain failed parts for inspection by AMSOIL INC. unless given to the OEM.
c. Customer shall also, within 30 days of failure, notify AMSOIL INC. and provide the following:
(a.) An eight (8) ounce representative oil sample taken from the failed equipment and put into a clean container.
(b.) Documentation including make, model, and year of equipment, total accumulated miles and/or hours, and duty cycle or service environment.
(c.) Equipment or vehicle maintenance history documentation including miles or hours at the time of AMSOIL lubricant installation, general equipment repairs, and oil analysis results if available.
(d.) Proof of purchase for AMSOIL lubricant.
(e.) Batch number from oil container or Certificate of Analysis.
d. Mail the above sample and information to:
AMSOIL INC., Attn: Technical Services
AMSOIL Bldg.
Superior, WI 54880
e. In cases where the OEM warranty is still in effect and that warranty coverage is denied based on the use of an AMSOIL lubricant, the customer shall immediately notify AMSOIL INC. and provide a written copy of the OEM warranty denial.
f. AMSOIL INC. may, at its option, notify its insurance carrier of the claim.
g. AMSOIL INC. or its insurance carrier may conduct an investigation that includes, but is not limited to, an inspection of the failed parts, a review of the operating conditions, and a thorough review of the information requested above. The customer agrees to cooperate with such investigation.
h. If AMSOIL INC. or its insurance carrier pays a claim, an attempt may be made to recover amounts paid from the OEM. If this occurs, the customer may be asked to provide further information pertaining to the failure and to cooperate with AMSOIL INC. or its insurer in the recovery process.
THE WARRANTY MAY NOT BE EXTENDED TO COVER:
1. AMSOIL lubricants used in mechanically deficient equipment as a result of abnormal operation; negligence; abuse; damage from casualty, shipment or accident; or equipment modification done without written authorization from the OEM.
2. AMSOIL lubricants that have been used for the purposes of racing or in applications where the OEM required lubricant standards do not match those stated by AMSOIL INC. without the written approval from AMSOIL INC.
3. AMSOIL lubricants that have been contaminated after leaving the AMSOIL INC. premises due to improper handling, storage or through equipment deficiencies in which an AMSOIL lubricant has been installed.
4. AMSOIL lubricants which have been packaged, regardless of container, by anyone other than AMSOIL INC. or an AMSOIL authorized packager.
5. Any allegedly defective AMSOIL lubricant for which a reasonable sample has not been preserved.
6. Failure of equipment when AMSOIL lubricants are not used in strict accordance with either the written recommendations of AMSOIL INC. or the OEM for warranty coverage.
7. AMSOIL lubricants that have been used in conjunction with any other product or additive that has not been authorized for use by AMSOIL INC.
8. Failure of equipment due to a pre-existing condition that is unrelated to the use of AMSOIL.
9. Repair or replacement of equipment because of normal wear.
AMSOIL RESERVES THE RIGHT TO REJECT A WARRANTY CLAIM FOR ANY OR ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS:
1. Failure to follow all OEM recommendations for warranty coverage, including lubricants, maintenance, and drain intervals, prior to the first installation of AMSOIL lubricants.
2. AMSOIL INC. was not notified within 30 days from the date of failure.
3. Claim information is insufficient.
4. Parts inspected do not substantiate a claim or indicate failure.
5. Parts requested were not sent or are unavailable for inspection.
6. Oil sample was not provided.
7. Failure of the customer to follow the written procedure herein.
8. Customer refused to cooperate with the investigation.
9. Failure was the result of an OEM defect.
This warranty shall be governed, interpreted and construed by, and in accordance with, the laws of the State of Wisconsin.
AMSOIL INC. IS THE SOLE AUTHOR OF THIS POLICY AND MAKES NO OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED UNLESS A SEPARATE, SPECIFIC WARRANTY HAS BEEN WRITTEN.
SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES SO THE ABOVE LIMITATIONS OR EXCLUSIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. THIS WARRANTY GIVES YOU SPECIFIC LEGAL RIGHTS AND YOU MAY ALSO HAVE OTHER RIGHTS, WHICH VARY FROM STATE TO STATE.
__________________________________________________
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Spaminator
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/18/2006
10:05:16
| RE: Amsoil Reports ATF+4 Complaint Filed
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Message:
I missed one LOL
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