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moparman
Dodge Dakota
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5/11/2003
19:03:52
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 Subject: Help 3.9 into old 318 swap/ motor mounts
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I have a 93 3.9 dakota x-cab 4x4. i ripped out a 318 out of a 74 dart and rebuilt it tuff. my question has been asked many of times will little luck in a strait answer. how can i make this swap?
i'm still not to sure what year auto A-500 tranny will mount to the 74 318 and my 93 transfercase, and what torque converter stall speed i should use on about 340 hp; I plan on going non computer all analog. is there a parts truck i should look out for like a early V8 dakota or some type of ram charger or anything. something to make it a cheaper convertion.
also are the motor mounts that bad to get costumized if needed on this swap. because dodge change the mounts on the block in the 80's some time. I heard about engineswap.com but they only make 2x4 not 4x4 convertions because of the 3 stage mount. 1 to motor, 1 to frame, and 1 to front axle. i'm only 20 and new to the morpar family your help would be much appreciated thank you for you time and knowledge. any added info on this swap is much appreciated.
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dakracer2003
Dodge Dakota
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5/11/2003
21:28:48
|  RE: Help 3.9 into old 318 swap/ motor mounts
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The trans would bolt up directly to the old engine , but everything else is going to be a problem. I really think you should consider selling your old engine and use a Magnum engine, whether you rebuild a used one or buy a crate engine from Mopar Performance. The headaches you would save yourself would be tremendous!!!
The Magnum engine is a better engine anyway.
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vern
Dodge Dakota
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5/12/2003
08:14:53
| RE: Help 3.9 into old 318 swap/ motor mounts
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i agree with dakracer with the motor being easyer to get in,but thats where it stops.
the mag engines are no better than the motor you have now,just the heads.the 69-70 318s[5.2s]235hp,
mag 318s[5.2s]235hp,69-70 318s had floating wrist pins thats more freedom in reving,[your 74 motor is,nt]
also if you use a mag you,ll need a computer and wiring harness,plus the computer limits you on your built-up.
analog you can build
fab your mounts or maybe the mounts from the dart k-member can be installed in your truck.
dodge makes a mount for the 89 rams to put a v8 in the place of a v6,drivers side only.
theres a guy in one of the forums on this site a few weeks back said he used a ramcharger member in a 88-89 dak 4x4 to put a 318/360 in his truck.
good luck with your install.hope some of this helped.
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FazDak
GenII
5/12/2003
12:45:25
| RE: Help 3.9 into old 318 swap/ motor mounts
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Vern, the HP #;s you quoted are correct but you have to remember that the #'s you listed for the 69-70 were measured differently. If measured by todays method they would be lower.
"had floating wrist pins thats more freedom in reving"
I dont think that would help reving more than a roller lifter cam like the Magnum?
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moparman
Dodge Dakota
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5/12/2003
18:12:39
|  RE: Help 3.9 into old 318 swap/ motor mounts
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vern your right on the old and new motors the block stayed virutaly the same just the heads change. also frank your also right with the roller lifer cam. but the roller lifters in the old motors were better and stronger thats why i like the old motor compared to the new magnums. also frank your right about the hp#s but you got to remeber that was an un-tuned carb motor on the old ones and the new motors have computers. which means that an old tuned motor will put out just as much or even more then the new magnums. plus i had my head ported, polished, and blueprinted. and thanks for all the help guys i'm going to stay with the old motor and try and figue out how to fab new mounts.
i was thinking of using the old ram charger motor mounts bolting them on, setting the motor in the truck lineing everything up and welding them were they lay. does this sould like a decent proposle. thanks for all your help.
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FazDak
GenII
5/12/2003
20:03:37
| RE: Help 3.9 into old 318 swap/ motor mounts
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Frank, whos frank? AM I to assume you are offended by what I said?
First off let me say that I have built em and then ask...have you?
Second, I think you have real UGL or a similar roller setup in mind when you say:"roller lifters in the old motors were better and stronger" Because the late 80's DC roller lifter setup was weak and there is no HP replacement for them. Oh and to top it all off....74's didnt have "roller lifters" so nevermind.
Third, you will have to have a set of X or J heads ported pretty heavily to match a stock Mag heads flow bench #'s.
Fourth, a 318 (stock) from 74 will never have the RWHP a 318mag has, I dont care if MR Holley himself tunes the Carter 2bbl, it aint gonna happen.
Fifth, the LA's had a very peaky tq curve because of the components, Mags have a long steady tq curve and that does matter in usable power.
A 1992 Dak 3.9 V6 did 0-60 and the 1.4 mile faster than the 1989 Shelby Dak with a TBI 318...go figure.
I dont care if you were offended, I was not offended by you, I just like people to get facts as straight as possible as alot of people on here want to know right from wrong and not opinion.
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dakracer2003
Dodge Dakota
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5/12/2003
20:29:49
| RE: Help 3.9 into old 318 swap/ motor mounts
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A magnum motor does not need to be used as a fuel injected motor. Mopar performance sells a M1 intake to make use of a holley 4 barrel carb...it is a very good piece. As for ignition , you can use the distributor out the old motor and ignition module of the older vehicles. I have a 71 Dart myself with a 318 built up real strong and it goes 12.2's in the quarter....but then i built a magnum 318 for a buddy's 72 Dart equiped same as mine and it does 11.7's and his weighs in a little heavier than mine!!! The only weak point i have found in a magnum is the rocker arm studs. They should be replaced with screw in studs with a stud girdle for serious performance cams. I know you have a lot of work in your old engine but it would still be best to build a magnum motor ( carbed or injected which ever floats your boat ).
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vern
Dodge Dakota
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5/13/2003
07:48:07
| RE: Help 3.9 into old 318 swap/ motor mounts
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i,m not here to compare apples with apples,
moparman ask how to install the motor he has.
dakracer told him how much easyer and better the mag are.i,m saying not so.the pre-mag can and will produce as much hp and torque as the mag.
take a 85-91 318 roller cam block,69-70 floating rods,pistons of chose,340/360 heads-202s or 188s with some porting and the flowing will be there,
cam of chose.
my point is,you have more freedom with-out the computer trying to control fuel and timimg.
and the pre-mag can and will,match any mag engine.
check out hughes engines,360 numbers.
moparman its your boat. good luck.
vern
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FazDak
GenII
5/13/2003
10:45:57
| RE: Help 3.9 into old 318 swap/ motor mounts
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You are right there Vern, a LA being carbed and being able to live with ECU ignition is a cheaper and (at the moment) more tunable option.
I have nothing in general wrong with either combo but if he has any emmission testing the LA carbed will fail in a 93.
Not flaming guys, just tryin to keep it real.
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vern
Dodge Dakota
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5/13/2003
11:22:14
| RE: Help 3.9 into old 318 swap/ motor mounts
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fazdak-i,m not sure on this but if moparman detunes it and a couple bottles of carb cleaner
along with the cat just mite get him under the sniffer,also opening a vaccum port will help in leaning it out some just for the sniffer.
a friend of mine in mass said this worked for him.
mite be worth a try.
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FazDak
GenII
5/13/2003
18:21:19
| RE: Help 3.9 into old 318 swap/ motor mounts
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Your right, for the sniffer only.
In the area Im at if they think something is not "factory" they will lift the hood and if a Dak came with MPI and it has a carb sittin atop than the rule book says they can reject it because it is not what came on it from the factory. I used to be a VA state inspector.
Good connections can get round that though.
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dakracer2003
Dodge Dakota
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5/13/2003
21:44:13
| RE: Help 3.9 into old 318 swap/ motor mounts
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My biggest reasoning about the magnum motor being best for his application is that it is a direct bolt in. In fact, you can even modify a magnum block to accept all the old engines top end of the other engine if you wish to use the heads and intake setup. it is just a matter of drilling the oil feed holes for the head into the top of the block. I do feel though to alieviate all the headaches of the swap of a old 318 , the magnum motor will be the best for the application. Good luck either way!
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moparman
Dodge Dakota
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5/14/2003
01:14:29
|  RE: Help 3.9 into old 318 swap/ motor mounts
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fazdak sorry about the mix up. i was not offended just alittle brain fart on my part. and vern thank you for the clear up on the motor mounts. i'm more than likely to keep the 74 motor i got and try and work with it. the motor got all the hop up i need and will have the power i want plus the block only has 35000 og. miles on it, its praticaly brand new. and fazdak your also right it doesnt have roller lifters. my mistake i got alittle ahead of myself i have hydrolic lifters which are very strong and reliable.
but my question is still not clearly answered. i want to know about the motor mounts, and is my firts proposal sound ok or way off. can any of you nice people help. i dont want to ditch my old motor because i put to much time, effort, and money to bail now. i wont get what its worth. plus i have grown close to my blue beast. the motor have been balenced, blueprinted, bored, quad jet carb, dual plan edelbrock performer manifold and performer cam kit, jacobs ignt., forged pistons and rods, 50 shot nitros, flow tech exhause system, 8 qu. oil pan, high volume oil pump, march serpentine pulleys, accel performance distributer, fluidampr, high touque starter, powermaser 1wire altenater, ARP throu out and completly overhauld and proformance inhanced all the way around bottom to top inside and out. so can someone help me with my motor mount convertion problem. thank you
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vern
Dodge Dakota
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5/14/2003
08:13:31
| RE: Help 3.9 into old 318 swap/ motor mounts
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moparman-heres a thought or two,measure from the back of the v6 block to the center of the motor mount,then measure the v8.if i fugured this rite
about 18 1/2in on the v8,10 1/2in on the v6.
heres my idea,take some flat stock steel mount this on the v8 from the ears in front[the ones the motor mounts bolt too]to the brace hole on the v8 block,then mount the v6 mounts to the flat stock steel[bolt or weld]
or use a mount plate from the frame to the motor
using the biscuit rubber mount from a 70-71 dusters,darts and alot of dodge trucks[using the said brackets off these motors]i believe from 70-89 on trucks[full size] maybe more.
hope this helps.
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FazDak
GenII
5/14/2003
10:31:30
| RE: Help 3.9 into old 318 swap/ motor mounts
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np Moparman.
Another thing I forgot to tell ya...I have a LA 360 I was gonna build up to put in my 94.
Seems the sepentine belt setup is not going to work easily on a LA engine, the LA head only has 2 bolt holes (some of em have 3) for the acc. setup to bolt on to. The mag has 4.
I looked into this last year and it would be some work to adapt the old style alt. ans p/s pump to a mag engine.
Research that well before you start into it and if you find something let me know cause I have a $hit load of HP LA parts laying round, I still would love a THUMPIN LA in my Dak!!
Good luck.
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moparman
Dodge Dakota
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5/14/2003
20:43:16
| RE: Help 3.9 into old 318 swap/ motor mounts
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thanks for all the help guys. vern that sound like a good idea on the mounts. i had a similar idea how does this sound. i get 84 ram charger mounts because i heard that they work on the block and its 4x4 but not sure if it is a biscuit type rubber mount. i bolt the motor mounts on the block like ears. then i set the motor in the truck and center it as good as humanly posible then weld the frame mount to the fram and the existing 2 stages of the mounts i have in ther now. and poof it should work in theory. but you know everything sound like it works untill you try it. i'm sure just a 1/4 in. off wont be so bad with a fluidamper.
and fazdak i got the pulleys from summit they made it for my year block and heads but you could be right i have yet to bolt it up. my have to go with a v belt. plus all i'm runing of the belt is the altinator, and water pump. i live in hawaii and we have no emmission laws here. we drive our 9 second camaro's to the store and work.
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vern
Dodge Dakota
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5/15/2003
08:18:36
| RE: Help 3.9 into old 318 swap/ motor mounts
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that just mite work on the mounts.
good luck
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Moparman
Dodge Dakota
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5/15/2003
19:58:57
|  RE: Help 3.9 into old 318 swap/ motor mounts
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I think this is going to be the solution. i'm going to give it the old college try. thanks for the help and chat guys i'll keep on the up date to tell you how its going and how the final produced looks. i'll give you a before and after. any other help on how to go faster is more than welcome. :)
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89dak
Dodge Dakota
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9/03/2004
15:20:00
|  RE: Help 3.9 into old 318 swap/ motor mounts
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Here is some info I came across on the mounts.
Schumacker or engine-swaps.com sells bolt in mounts for 385.00 for the set. But I found a universal kit for 105.00 for the mounts and crossmember at http://www.chassisengineeringinc.com/
This is what I am doing. I have a 89 with a 3.9 that bent a valve and blow the head gasket. I found a 1968 318 rebuilt for 100.00 so I am doing the swap.
I hope this info helps.
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steveo27
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2004
22:11:46
| RE: Help 3.9 into old 318 swap/ motor mounts
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hey 89, you have any more info on this?
i have any 87 with a v6, i wanna swap out for an 8 and i cannot find motor mounts anywhere.
and how bout the legallity of swapping motors. my 6 in the truck is carburated, and i plan on keepin the 8 carburated. here in PA we have emissions and inspections, what will they do / say about it?
thanks
-steve
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