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19:24:01 - 04/27/2024
General Dakota Board
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samthe man
Dodge Dakota
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5/11/2003
08:38:40
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 Subject: Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc.! Face it, it all
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comes down to how obsessive we are. I obsess enough that I've used Mobil 1 since the early 80s. Without getting into the full history (all positive!) suffice it to say I presently own a 95 Cherokee/168,000; 98 Escort/111,000; 99 GP/94,000 all on Mobil 1 oil and T fluid. Would these vehicles still be running fine if I had been servicing them with conventional fluid? Probably! I buy Mobil 1 where I find it on sale. My obsession, however, is not strong enough to pay more for Amsoil even if I was convinced it was better than Mobil 1, which I'm not!
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QwikKota
Dodge Dakota
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5/11/2003
17:29:20
|  RE: Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc.! Face it, it all
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Even if Amsoil and Mobil 1 were equal as far as engine protection, the extra cost for Amsoil is justified by extended drain intervals. Let me know if you see 25,000 miles on an oil change on the back of a Mobil 1 bottle. Most people are too afraid to take the chance of running oil that long, but oil analysis shows that Amsoil can be run. My sponsor has run the same oil for 3 years in his Gasoline truck and 2 years in his Diesel truck. Inform us when your Mobil 1 can do that.
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samtheman
Dodge Dakota
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5/11/2003
17:58:44
| Haven't been on the Mobil 1 web page lately,
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however, it had said 25,000 after manufactures warranty was finished. It is a moot point with me anyway because I'd never do that with my vehicles with any oil!
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Andy
Dodge Dakota
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5/11/2003
21:47:45
| RE: Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc.! Face it, it all
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Yeah leave your oil in 25k. The oil may take it, but just think about all that dirt and metal just flowing through you motor.
Sounds great where do i sign up?
Stop being a tightwad and change the oil
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
5/12/2003
06:52:29
|  RE: Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc.! Face it, it all
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Oil discussion can be as difficult as discussing religion or politics ... and that is fine. This is America and everyone has a choice. What I try to make perfectly clear is that I am against what is being sold to the American public as a STANDARD (3k mile oil changes). Oil certification requirements are higher in Europe than they are here in the U.S. Many vehicles in Europe are between the 10k and 15k mile recommended oil change intervals.
It is long past overdue for Americans to "rethink" the 3k mile oil change concept, the wasting of a natural resource, and our dependence on foreign oil. We can save billions of barrels of oil if everyone would consider using a synthetic oil with longer drain intervals.
I try to be very clear when talking about extended drains. 10,000 mile oil change is absolutely possible (some vehicle manufacturers are recommending longer changes now in the U.S.) ... but not the "Quick-Lubes", and not the Dealers ... they want you to keep coming back.
Up to a 25,000 mile interval is possible "under certain conditions", but please read further for additional information. The KEY here is that --- The 3,000 mile recommendation is overkill, especially with superior synthetic oils.
I know it's hard to believe, but there are a few things that I would like to clarify. Amsoil has been in the oil industry for 30 years. Due to Amsoil's superior synthetic composition and advanced performance additives, AMSOIL performs much longer than do conventional petroleum and other synthetic motor oils. No other major oil manufacturer matches AMSOIL's 25,000-mile or one-year drain interval recommendations (whichever comes FIRST, changing the filter every six months).
However, the 25,000 mile /1 year that is on the back of the bottle is NOT an absolute! One must realize that is for non-severe service (highway miles where you have stable operating conditions) and that the indicated drain interval also has a time period of 1 year maximum as well.
***** READ THIS PLEASE EVERYONE: Under a combination of city and highway circumstances, AMSOIL recommends up to 2 or 3 times longer, it means up to 2 or 3 times the equipment manufacturer's recommendation (If your owners manual states 3k miles , then you can change at 9k, and if your owners manual states 5k then 12-15k changes would be alright based on driving habits ... the harder you drive, the sooner the change). Proper filtration is also very important. AMSOIL SDF Oil Filters must be changed at least every 6 months regardless of miles driven.
Notice: Modifications to engine will change service intervals.
Notice: More frequent service may be required under severe service operating conditions.
Notice: For drain interval beyond 3x manufacturers recommendations (especially the 25k change) ---
Regular oil analysis is recommended for establishing drain intervals.
AMSOIL --- 30 years of manufacturing oil and mountains of data and tests make these clains possible.
Let me know if you need additional information.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Demon Dakota
DakotaEnthusiast
5/12/2003
11:33:55
| RE: Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc.! Face it, it all
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Steven Roark,
You also have to remember that the extended drain intervals by BMW and M-B are only when performed by their authorized service centers and their techs. Supposedly, they have a way to keep any contaminents out when doing the oil changes. I guess that means they use a total vacuum (sp?).
K&N Drop in AF (CAI during summer months)
True Dual exhaust and removed third cat
HO Cams & HO Intake
FASTMAN 70mm TB
Autolite 3923 Plugs
TPS @ .76 VDC
IAT Adjuster Mod
14.52@94.2 MPH at Silver Dollar Raceway
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hkDak
Dodge Dakota
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5/12/2003
12:56:48
| RE: Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc.! Face it, it all
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Benefits of synthetics:
1) Better fuel efficiency - particularly with the 0w-30
2) Better protection from high temp engine deposits - PAO's and Esters thermally decompose more cleanly than do petroleum based oils. Several recent SAE papers document this effect ....
3) Better performance in very cold or very hot weather
4) Reduced oil consumption in mechanically sound engines, due to their lower evaporation rates
5) Reduced exhaust emissions, primarily due to #1 and #4
6) Increased biodegradability, due to the use of organic esters
7) Better piston ring seal, due to the higher film strength of the basestock
Note: In two cycle engines ...elimination of exhaust smoke and spark plug fouling and the ability to run very lean mixture ratios of 100:1
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Figman
Dodge Dakota
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5/12/2003
13:39:13
| RE: Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc.! Face it, it all
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Demon Dakota,
Your comment: "...extended drain intervals by BMW and M-B are only when performed by their authorized service centers and their techs."
I am in Europe. We have not seen 3000mi oil changes for probably 20 years. Our vehicles are mostly, if not all European and Japanese and the minimum OEM recommendation (excluding diesels) is 9,375mi per oil change. But these boundaries are currently being pushed higher as well.
Current OEM oil service intervals (per family members owners manuals):
Alfa's / Renaults - 12,500mi
BMW - 15,000 mi
Citroens - 18,750mi
Oh yes, This is because our oil certification is stricter here in Europe. Better oil = longer drain intervals.
Not all wine is the same. Not all cheese is the same. Not all oil is the same.
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ttt_ttt_ttt
Dodge Dakota
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5/12/2003
13:41:00
|  RE: Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc.! Face it, it all
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Message:
ttt ttt ttt ttt ttt
ttt ttt ttt ttt ttt
ttt ttt ttt ttt ttt
ttt ttt ttt ttt ttt
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JimBee
Dodge Dakota
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5/12/2003
13:44:19
| RE: Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc.! Face it, it all
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DemonDak
Your words sound like BS to me.
More dealer crap-ola .....to get your $$$.
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Demon Dakota
DakotaEnthusiast
5/12/2003
14:05:22
| RE: Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc.! Face it, it all
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Message:
JimBee, you must have never owned a BMW or M-B before then...
K&N Drop in AF (CAI during summer months)
True Dual exhaust and removed third cat
HO Cams & HO Intake
FASTMAN 70mm TB
Autolite 3923 Plugs
TPS @ .76 VDC
IAT Adjuster Mod
14.52@94.2 MPH at Silver Dollar Raceway
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Demon Dakota
DakotaEnthusiast
5/12/2003
14:07:07
| RE: Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc.! Face it, it all
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Figman, do you change your own oil, or does the dealer do it for you (with the service plan when you buy the car)?
K&N Drop in AF (CAI during summer months)
True Dual exhaust and removed third cat
HO Cams & HO Intake
FASTMAN 70mm TB
Autolite 3923 Plugs
TPS @ .76 VDC
IAT Adjuster Mod
14.52@94.2 MPH at Silver Dollar Raceway
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IknowTheFacts
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/12/2003
14:29:24
| RE: Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc.! Face it, it all
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Message:
BMW and M-B seem to make the recommendations as any other manufacturer does (use dealer services only). It's just recently that M-B has imposed stricter recommendations to abide by their specifications. PROBLEM.... Owners were using cheap oil, going the manufacturers 12k mile recommended intervals, causing problems (in Europe oil has higher specs. vs. weaker U.S. specs.). M-B sent a memo stating to use dealers only, or synthetics, so the cars would hold up for the 12k changes. They strongly worded their letters to owners. Otherwise, there wouldn't have been the lawsuit that was posted last week re: the wrong oil being used for the 12k intervals leading to engine damage. Uneducated Americans were using cheap oil and it was breaking down.
Same with BMW...
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Demon Dakota
DakotaEnthusiast
5/12/2003
14:58:22
| RE: Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc.! Face it, it all
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Message:
Right..that's exactly my point. It's through dealer service with those drain intervals. And I didn't get any such notice from Mercedes about using synthetic only oil or anyhting like that, so I can't vouch for that statement. If anyone changes their own oil on a BMW or Mercedes now-a-days, it can not be sold as a certified car from the dealer (even if you had all oil changes and services...everything videotaped and documented). The problem overall is people want to find the cheapest way to do things, and cheap oil plus extended drain intervals = expensive motor repairs or even replacement.
K&N Drop in AF (CAI during summer months)
True Dual exhaust and removed third cat
HO Cams & HO Intake
FASTMAN 70mm TB
Autolite 3923 Plugs
TPS @ .76 VDC
IAT Adjuster Mod
14.52@94.2 MPH at Silver Dollar Raceway
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I2knowFacts
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/12/2003
14:59:06
| RE: Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc.! Face it, it all
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Message:
DemonDakota, Wrong!!! The recommendation to use only dealers was in response to the following. They figured out that owners are stupid.
Mercedes Benz (the same guys that make our Dakotas) made a BIG mistake. They recommended 12k oil changes, but did not inform the customers in the manual to ** use synthetic oil only **. It was in fine print as to meeting certain EUROPEAN certification standards. The only oils in America that meet those EUROPEAN standards are synthetic oils. They forgot to print a different manual for the U.S., stating synthetic oil only!!!
The settlement as reported by ABC News-- Mercedes-Benz has reached a $32 million dollar settlement with plaintiffs in the class action lawsuit filed against them by owners of some 1998 through 2001 model Mercedes cars. The suit claims that the company failed to inform car owners that non-synthetic motor oil could case engine wear and damage. There were 351,439 plaintiffs in the action, and they will receive $35 worth of vouchers to be used towards an oil change. The company has also agreed to extend the warranty coverage on plaintiffs vehicles, to cover costs related to the damage. (Apr-10-03)
Repeat: They say Mercedes did not warn them that use of non-synthetic motor oils would cause premature engine wear (when changing oil at M-B's recommended 12k interval). Now the new manuals say use synthetic's only.
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hkDak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/12/2003
15:17:25
| RE: Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc.! Face it, it all
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Mercedes-Benz Owners Win Oil Change
(AP) - April 10, 2003 — Owners of some 1998 through 2001 model Mercedes-Benz cars who said they weren't warned that non-synthetic motor oil could cause premature engine wear have won a federal court settlement worth more than $32 million.
The 351,439 plaintiffs in the class-action products liability lawsuit will receive vouchers worth $35 toward a scheduled service that includes an oil change under the settlement approved by U.S. District Judge Franklin S. Van Antwerpen.
Mercedes Benz USA also agreed to extend warranty coverage to pay costs of repairing any damage caused by the problem.
The lawsuit filed in Philadelphia involved vehicles equipped with a "Flexible Service System" designed to monitor driving conditions and notify drivers when an oil change is needed.
The problem allegedly occurred when drivers used conventional oil rather than synthetic oil.
Depending on vehicle operation and driving conditions, the system typically recommends oil change intervals between 10,000 and 20,000 miles _ averaging about 12,000 miles. But conventional oil could cause engine damage when used for such extended intervals.
Mercedes-Benz sent vehicle owners a letter in March 2001 strongly recommending that they use synthetic oils for Flexible Service System-equipped vehicles to avoid sludging and excessive oil consumption."
- The End
- Use Synthetic Oil - Mercedes Benz knows you can average 12,000 miles using synthetic, and up to 20,000 miles depending upon driving conditions. That is why some M-B vehicles come equipped with a "Flexible Service System", which typically recommends oil change intervals between 10,000 and 20,000 miles _ averaging about 12,000 miles, but ONLY USING SYNTHETIC OIL.
Time to put this to bed?
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
5/12/2003
15:38:27
| Amsoil Sponsor response to M-B Class Action
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To: I know, I 2 know, hk Dak, (in conclusion)
Mercedes-Benz’s Flexible Service System encourages extended drain intervals, but neglects to specify use of synthetic motor oils.
Mercedes-Benz began incorporating a system called the Flexible Service System (FSS) in its vehicles in 1998. Utilizing an electronic monitor, the system is designed to monitor engine oil life and alert drivers of the need to change oil by measuring such factors as engine temperature, oil level, vehicle speed, engine speed, distance driven and time since last service. Advanced versions of the system alert the driver when the oil level is below minimum, indicate how much oil needs to be added and automatically lengthen the interval between service requirements.
According to attorney Kenneth Jacobsen, Mercedes-Benz claims customers can extend their oil change intervals to 20,000 miles through the use of the Flexible Service System. However, they didn’t tell customers until 2001 that they needed to use synthetic motor oil in order to take advantage of the extended drain intervals. As a result, some of the customers who used conventional motor oils began experiencing engine problems.
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AMSOIL INC. introduced the concept of extended drain intervals in 1972 with a recommended 25,000-mile/12-month drain interval. Formulated with the highest quality synthetic basestocks and advanced additive packages, AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils effectively reduce friction, heat and wear for maximum power, performance and fuel economy.
***** READ THIS PLEASE EVERYONE *****
The 25,000 mile /1 year that is on the back of the Amsoil bottle is NOT an absolute! One must realize that is for non-severe service (highway miles where you have stable operating conditions) and that the indicated drain interval also has a time period of 1 year maximum as well.
Under a combination of city and highway circumstances, AMSOIL recommends up to 2 or 3 times longer, it means up to 2 or 3 times the equipment manufacturer's recommendation (If your owners manual states 3k miles , then you can change at 9k, and if your owners manual states 5k then 12-15k changes would be alright based on driving habits ... the harder you drive, the sooner the change). Proper filtration is also very important. AMSOIL SDF Oil Filters must be changed at least every 6 months regardless of miles driven.
-------------------------------------------------
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Demon Dakota
DakotaEnthusiast
5/12/2003
18:20:09
| RE: Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc.! Face it, it all
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Message:
If you don't mind, post the link, not the article here. I'm not really in the catagory for the class action lawsuite (I change every 4K miles Mobil 1). I still never received any type of letter from M-B
And like I said before, since they started the 60K free servicing, if you do your own oil changes, it can not be resold as certified. You are chosing to bypass Mangusson-Moss by turning down the free service...well, it's not exactly free (they must work it into the price of the car somehow).
K&N Drop in AF (CAI during summer months)
True Dual exhaust and removed third cat
HO Cams & HO Intake
FASTMAN 70mm TB
Autolite 3923 Plugs
TPS @ .76 VDC
IAT Adjuster Mod
14.52@94.2 MPH at Silver Dollar Raceway
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jeez
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/12/2003
21:49:39
| RE: Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc.! Face it, it all
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folks 90% of america never have or will ever hear of amshiet. get a life or take your own, amshiet is not the blood of jezzuss( they misspelled it in the bible). It's normal stuff. It is not a mircle cure. You will not see jezzuss. Nobody sells this crap except door to door. Gain some IQ points
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Gee Wizz
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/13/2003
06:59:44
| RE: Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc.! Face it, it all
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Gee jeez---
I bet there are some aftermarket Dakota mods that you can only get by ordering on the phone---correct? Does this make them bad? No!!! Lands End Clothing is only available by catalog--- and half my closet is full of Lands End. Great shirts of the highest quality! Does this make them bad? No--- cuts out the middleman markup for stocking them on the shelf.
Gee Wizz
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Demon Dakota
DakotaEnthusiast
5/13/2003
10:24:21
| RE: Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc.! Face it, it all
IP: Logged
Message:
Guys, STFU about the stupid stuff, quit hijacking the thread, and get back on topic.
Any one? Post the link for the "lawsuit"?
K&N Drop in AF (CAI during summer months)
True Dual exhaust and removed third cat
HO Cams & HO Intake
FASTMAN 70mm TB
Autolite 3923 Plugs
TPS @ .76 VDC
IAT Adjuster Mod
14.52@94.2 MPH at Silver Dollar Raceway
|
BadBadMB
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/22/2003
14:44:12
| RE: Amsoil, Mobil 1, etc.! Face it, it all
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Message:
Demon,
I own one of these MB's. Here is the ABC link:
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/041003_nw_oilchange.html
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