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TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
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3/28/2003
17:26:54

Subject: the Iraqi's drive Toyotas....
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HA HA HA HA!!! Anyone else besides me enjoy seeing those things blown up and charred with fire? I wonder if the Taliban sold them these piece of crap trucks???



sandman
Dodge Dakota
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3/28/2003
19:00:27

RE: the Iraqi's drive Toyotas....
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You will notice that the only time you see an American truck in a third world country is when fullsize payloads hualing is needed and it must be cheap to boot. For the most part American trucks just do not hold up in these enviroments very well. SO you usualy see Toyota compacts,Nissian compacts, Toyota Land Cruisers, Troopers, Uni-Mogs. My Dakota would be lucky to last 1-2 years in that enviroment. In that type of enviroment low quality content and cool styleing count for very little. It would also help if Dodge, Chevy, and Ford had a good diesel for their compact and midsize trucks! If you really want to know what would make me happy it would be if Dodge built their trucks with as much durability, refinement and functional design as Toyota!!! Put I guess I have to settle for cheap and fast instead!!!!



slophead
Dodge Dakota
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3/28/2003
23:27:08

RE: the Iraqi's drive Toyotas....
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Doge and a recent addition-Jeep in the chrysler line beat the snot outa an army equiped with jap crap back in the 40's and we are now doing it again golly sandman I would swear you are anti-american sometimes.



jas01dakon
Dodge Dakota
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3/29/2003
00:08:07

RE: the Iraqi's drive Toyotas....
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I saw a late 70's - early 80's vintage Chevy Caprice on CNN. I've seen shots of Suburbans or Tahoes in Baghdad. Some seniour Baath Party officials who got lost and captured by the Marines had a suitcase full of US currency straight from Sadman himself. They love American sh1t...just not the kind that falls from the sky.

Iraq isn't third world. The wealth they sit on could make every citizen a multimillionaire. It's just that all the wealth is controlled by one man and his family. Just like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman, Qatar, Yemen, et al. and to some extent Iran.

As for diesels, Chrysler sells thousands of diesel Voyagers (Caravans), Cherokees (Liberty) and Grand Cherokees every year. Just not in the US where diesels are seen as underpowered and dirty rather than efficient and inexpensive to operate. The only time you find a diesel in a Dodge here is in a huge pickup that's meant for plowing or towing. Dodge could make them but nobody would by them.



sandman
Dodge Dakota
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3/29/2003
10:56:11

RE: the Iraqi's drive Toyotas....
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No I am not anti-American. It sickens me that as a nation in general we have become lazy, greedy and complacent. The Jap's build a much more durable compact truck's and cars then we do. It is really a shame since we taught them how to do it. The difference is they are ashamed to put their "family name" on a grossly inferior product this is why Toyota will always rule long term durability studies. Here in America share holders greed decides how a car will be built and marketing idiots have final say. It makes me ashamed that we as consumers do not demand more from the Auto companys. I do not belive in lying about something just to feel better. I like to fix things that are broke not lie about them. My Dak is a good truck but the quality of material is not on par with my Mom's Tundra. The fit and finish is not on par with her Tundra. THe level of refinement is not on par either. If we do not do something fast Nissans new fullsize and Toyota's fullsize are going to hurt the industry bad. Right now they are just 1/2 tons with out diesels but that will not last for long. It really makes me angry that we do this too ourselfs. I am really happy to see that we are kicking Iraqi A$$ but the Toyota parts has nothing to do with kicking their A$$. Their heavy trucks were Diamler trucks maybe I should hate Diamler Chrysler for seling them heavy trucks to mount guns and rockets to!! I am also pretty sure that they drive alot of Daimler products their. What do you think they are useing to pull scuds around??? The Unimog is not a Jap vechile either. If the American public saw the failure rate of various vechiles in the desert they would $hit to see how much we are paying for large trucks that just can seem to stay running in the desert. P.S. Daimler Chrysler is not an American company it is a German company my Dakota is an import/non-domestic brand. My German truck made her in the USA is no Differnt then my Mom's Toyota made her in the USA. They are both Import Brands made her in the USA!!



TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
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3/29/2003
15:06:13

RE: the Iraqi's drive Toyotas....
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you never cease to amaze me sandman. why dont you sell your dakota and buy something else?



jas01dakon
Dodge Dakota
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3/29/2003
15:54:04

RE: the Iraqi's drive Toyotas....
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I don't see anything anti American about telling it like it is. I love my Dak's (2) but they don't hold a candle to the Tundra. Telling the truth is not anti American. Lying to yourself and everyone else is called denial. Try driving a Tundra. It's a beautiful truck.

And I'm really sick of the old farts here with their "Jap crap" lines and their racist bullsh1t pretending that if they chant the same old bullsh1t lines about "we kicked Jap ass" and "we taught them how to make them" that somehow that will justify DC passing off the same old crap as modern quality.

We didn't teach anyone anything...they're teaching us. Get a fugging clue before you post sh1t like that, you goof. And pull your head out of your anus. Sandman hit the nail on the head.

Toyota, Nissan, Honda...they give the people what they want which is quality, durability and value. Dodge gives all three but to a much lesser degree. Dodges look nice but that's just a veneer hiding some real nasty crap underneath.



sandman
Dodge Dakota
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3/29/2003
18:08:27

RE: the Iraqi's drive Toyotas....
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Well the reason I do not sell it is too fold. 1) I like it for the most part. Just because I like it does not make me deaf and dumb to other products strengths and weakness or the product I am paying on. 2) The ony way to truely evaluate it is to give it the same care and usage as my Toyotas and evalutate it from their. I am objective with every thing I do. My Dakota has many things I like about it but is is not the best vechile ever built. It has lots of inetior space, can hual/Tow close to full size loads, was cheap to purchase, has a modern powertrain, handles well, has a good audio system and most importantly it fits my family perfectly right now! The things that disapoint me about My QC are poor paint, poor brakes, cheap plastic interior that rattles already at 22,000 miles and too much engine, wind and road noise entering the cabin. I do of course reliase that I paid $5000.00 less for me 2001 SLT Plus QC then I would have paid for any of the competing vechiles from Toyota but you have to compare everything to the quality gurus. Even J.D. Powers proclaims Toyota the "quality guru's". You have to look at the engines that are avaiable now from everone in the V6-V8 in and around 4.0-4.8, you have to look at fast track records with power train failures, reputation plays a role, TSB's and Recalls, Off Road ability,interior noise levels, how solid a vechile feels, brake feel and fade......... Every manufacture has strength and weakness's and some have more then others. I see no one cares to mention all of the Daimler Benz disels pulling Iraqi epuipment around. I guess you missed that huge Mercedes Emblem on the front of the Scud Launcher. Gee I think that is the same people that own Dodge????? I think it is funny how no one one this site wants to admit they are driveing an "IMPORT MAKE" (See German) if their truck was made after the buyout of Chrysler. It is no different then driveing a Toyota made her in America!!! So while I do not shout off the highest roof top that Dodge rules the Automotive world I do not go around putting it down either. I dare anyone here to take a new Toyota 4Runner or Porsche Cheyanne for a test drive. Take a Lexus 470 for a spin hope in a new Camry and take it for a spin or a Nissan Maxima....SOme weekends i will get dressed up and just go around to dealers going for test drives!! I work on car on the side and used to do it for a liveing. I work in the auto industry to this day. I read all of the trade jornals... If you are going to talk $hit you had better be ready to be called on it!!



ZZ
Dodge Dakota
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3/29/2003
20:03:31

RE: the Iraqi's drive Toyotas....
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Who says the Tundra has a better engineered interior than the Dakota? The Tundra interior is just plain cheap plastic. Toyota has spent the last few years decontenting all their vehicles and it really shows. Toyota owners are just jealous because they paid thousands of $$$ OVER sticker price for an inferior product. The base Tundra does not even come standard with a tachometer. If Japanese vehicles are so well engineered, why do so many rust out so quickly in the snowbelt states?



TIM
Dodge Dakota
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3/29/2003
21:47:30

RE: the Iraqi's drive Toyotas....
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think about it maybe SANDMAN is a camel jockey, sand migger, carpet flyer,towel head etc... i would never drive any JAP CRAP



kota on 20s
GenIII
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3/29/2003
22:20:05

RE: the Iraqi's drive Toyotas....
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yeah, you will just push (or tow) your american car to the next shop.

i have been VERRY lucky with my truck. not many problems with it, and the little things that poped up, i took care of it on my own. would i buy another dodge truck? probably... would i buy ANY domestic car?...HEL1 NO!

i jump in and out of differant makes of cars all day, from $120,000 mercedes CL's and $80,000 porche's to 1989 honda accords.

99 times out of 100, the "jap crap" holds up better.

~Eric
Single cam, non-VTEC

jas01dakon
Dodge Dakota
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3/29/2003
23:53:31

RE: the Iraqi's drive Toyotas....
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TIM sounds like a stupid fukwit. It's sh1t for brains like him that give the human race a bad reputation.



tsp159
Dodge Dakota
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3/30/2003
00:22:12

RE: the Iraqi's drive Toyotas....
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I drive an 1989 Accord. 180k on the clock and it starts every time.



Norm
Dodge Dakota
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3/30/2003
08:33:21

RE: the Iraqi's drive Toyotas....
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Yep...buy the rice....I'll buy my way out of a job if its the last thing I do!.



sandman
Dodge Dakota
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3/30/2003
11:12:44

RE: the Iraqi's drive Toyotas....
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Actualy what yo buy has little dirrect influnce on what plants get shut done. THe UAW was too greedy in the 1980's and early 1990's and that combined with stupid mangagment giveing away early retirment was insuffcient funding on the pension plan is what will cost you a job. It also does not help when communitys that had longterm relationships with auto industry try to milk the tax issue. Then you lose a plant and it goes to mexico. This destroys the tax base in a community when you loose thousands of jobs. THe fact that you have 4 people doing a job that 1 man should be doing per shift also hurts. When your car company has to dumb 1 billion dollars a year from profit into UAW pension fund to cover privious managment goofs that hurts competiveness as well. Like I said I am in the industry so I do not miss much. To the Tim I would have to say that my beef was not with plastic dash in general!! My beef was in the choice of plastics used and the design of the dash. A good design is often ruined by material selection her in America. I can tell that you are not in the industry. If you go to a supplier that supplies parts for Toyota and for Ford and ask them who like to deal with they will tell you right away Toyota. THe reason is that Toyota will come in with what they want , what material they want and then they will ask for a bid. They seldom haggel and will often pay what ever it takes to make the part exactly to their spec. Ford on the other hand will want to hagel for the lowest price then can get. So if the price is not where they want it they will ask the supplier if their is anything that can be done to get to their price. So of course the supplier say sure we can use a slightly lower grade of plastic and we can get rid of that compound curce and then we can give it to you for your price. Then marketing punks go back to the engineering staff and ask them if the changes are going to affect the parts short term durability up to warranty period. If the statical predicition of failure are acceptable they go with the elcheapo. So while the part will last through warranty it begins to shrink and buy 22,000 miles the plastic parts are rattleing. Often the cheaper plastic is more brittle and does not issolate sound from the cabin but rather it transmitts sound to the cabin. As far as rust go I have a huge parkinglot full of rusty American detroit steel. The rusting import thing is a thing of the past. If you are talking about the older Toyota trucks that reason the beds rusted is because they were made in Illinoise and they were not made to spec. Toyota imported the trucks as chasis part with no beds to get around the tarrif's. Then once they were in the country beds were installed. They supplier could not make the onepiece bed that Toyota asked for and they also decided to make it out of the same spec. steel they used in the S-1o beds wich were also rust buckets. Try to find me any american car other then a Deloren that is not a rust bucket in the rust belt after 10 years!!! THe only time it happens is if a car is extremely well cared for or a Corvette!!



kota on 20s
GenIII
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3/30/2003
11:56:48

RE: the Iraqi's drive Toyotas....
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thats verry interesting about the plastic's...anything that the domestics do to cut costs in other area's? engine parts, metal used (i know you gave a example of the toy truck, but is that still going on today?) paint, ect?

~Eric
Single cam, non-VTEC

ZZ
Dodge Dakota
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3/30/2003
13:07:24

RE: the Iraqi's drive Toyotas....
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Just go to www.tundrasolutions.com and read about all the Tundra problems.



Norm
Dodge Dakota
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3/30/2003
14:36:00

RE: the Iraqi's drive Toyotas....
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Well sandman, I think your looking at this with a somewhat jauniced eye. Any compamy or individual, as part of normal business, determines price and quality of a product or service in that purchase. Do do otherwise isn't smart business. I assume from your post your in the auto industry and without a doubt a negotiated price on a product is common. Although not part of the purchasing componant of our company, I have been involved in purchasing raw materials,parts and equipment from suppliers. Our stratagy has always been to obtain the highest product,material or service as the lowest cost. In fact, with the advent of the ISO-9001 standards, our company was certified with only minor revisions to the operating procedures. As a foot note, our division for the 2002 fiscal year, netted 278M profit. In addition, we have manufacturing plants in 96 countries which also certified under the same company procedures as the North American units.
U.S. industries since the early 1900's have been part of the welfare of its workers either by choice or contracted aggrements. In each case, the lifestyle, medical and long term security of an employee was assured. In the larger picture it was always thought an employee was overpaid and under worked. In fact, automation replaced much of the sweat shop confditions and increased production outputs while maintaining a stable work force. These workers also were the largest group of spending americans, providing jobs to other industries by virture of product purchases. However, in the early to mid 1980's the words Global Econony became more prevelant and offshore was the new buzz word. As we closed our manafacturing plants here and out sourced more work to other countries a courious thing happened. Local and state taxes increased, quality of product imported were substandard, wages dropped and medical costs soared. Recently some retired steel workers lost all their medical benifits which you and I will eventually pay. The reason for the demise of the U.S. steel industry has been debated, but in fact was caused by imported steel being sold on our market at price less than it cost to produce it. The same happened to kill our semiconductor industry. Does it make you wonder why the Japanese auto industry needs a least 92 yen per dollar to survive? Keep in mind also, the Japanese auto manufacturing industry is subsidised to allow their products to compete on the U.S. market at a competive price. You'll also notice spare parts are 30-50% higher than an equivelant domestic part simply because spares are not subsidised. By the way, the Toyotas you see being destroyed in Iraq were sold at bargan basement prices in conjunction with other military aggrements like the indestructable (sic) hardened aircraft bunkers. Use some simple math and you will see its impossiable for the average Iraq citizen to afforad a car. In addition you can say "Your welcome" for paying for that Toyota being used there from the profits of U.S. sales.
In short, I suggest before you blame and discredit U.S. industry you take much deeper look the overall picture and I stand by my previous post. In addition, subscribe to some publications like U.S. World Reports, News Week and forget Motor Trend for awhile.



kota on 20s
GenIII
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3/30/2003
21:30:34

RE: the Iraqi's drive Toyotas....
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ZZ, just click on DEALER RECALLS on THIS site, to view 11 pages of broken $hit

~Eric
Single cam, non-VTEC

ZZ
Dodge Dakota
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3/31/2003
11:13:49

RE: the Iraqi's drive Toyotas....
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My Dak has been in the shop 1 time in the 2.5 years I have owned it. I know a lot of Toyota and Honda owners who have made far more trips back to the dealer than me.



Demon Dakota
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3/31/2003
13:18:19

RE: the Iraqi's drive Toyotas....
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I've never had my Dakota in the shop for any malfunction. Now I did take it to my local dealer after I discovered it was delivered without the 3.55 LSD I wanted. Build sheet said it was there, but the tag clearly said 3.55 open underneath the truck. I just chalk that up as a mistake and don't worry about it, and they did install the 3.55 LSD after I discovered it and pointed it out to the dealership.

K&N Drop in AF (CAI during summer months)
True Dual exhaust and removed third cat
HO Cams & HO Intake
FASTMAN 70mm TB
Autolite 3923 Plugs
TPS @ .76 VDC
IAT Adjuster Mod
14.52@94.2 MPH at Silver Dollar Raceway

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